The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

[shafnutz05]

The Bucs blew a 6-0 lead and are now losing 10-6. Had a chance to end Philly's season this series too.

[willeyeam]

It appears Cruz has stupid power

[Ad@m]

[DigitalGypsy66]

Well the camera operators are better in triple A as well.


The Double A guys couldn't track long balls well...

[shafnutz05]

Chasen Shreve sucks

[willeyeam]

I hope Martin makes it because I want to see that swing every day

[shafnutz05]

**** Pirates.

[Morkle]

I hope at least some of these prospects make it to the MLB and have success.

[Troy Loney]

I think in the least 2022 is an interesting year. The offense is set at CF, 3B, and unfortunately 1B. They could do worse than Gamel and Yoshi at the corners, but it certainly wouldn't be a problem if they let those two walk, they could both be pretty easily replaced with other ML roster fodder that can't stick on better teams. Newman and Chavis likely have the inside tracks to SS and 2B, but they are going to be pushed immediately by Cruz, Castro and Castillo (and Tucker I guess). But this could also be the impetus for Cruz finally moving to the OF. Either way, Cruz looks ready and will just need to mash some homers in ST and the first month of AAA to manage service time, then make his ML debut.

I think the big difference between 2022 and 2021 is going to be the depth of internal options that are actual prospects. AAA was mostly a wasteland, Oliva looked really the only AAA guy that was an obvious candidate to get ML at bats, and he's been a complete scrub. Point being, the 2021 iteration of the Pirates permitted a depressingly long list of guys to get a lot of ML at bats with .650 OPS and below (Newman being the biggest culprit), Indy is going to be a prospect team next year, not a bunch of 25/26 year olds like Oliva, Chris Sharpe, Hunter Owens...etc, so even if they leave some roster spots as basically just placeholders, that could be a good thing. And ultimate point being, they could do nothing on offense and let the deep farm system work itself out, 2022 might be a little cringe as guys like Cruz and Martin get their first shot at big league pitching, but really, this whole 2022 crop could flop, and it wouldn't matter, the prime wave is when Gonzalez and Davis come through, those are like plug and play top of the order bats.

As the offense is capable of moving from pathetic to competent without personnel additions. The pitching staff is another story. Either they concede 2022 as hopeless and spend another year seeing what they have in Keller and Brubaker. I obviously assume they will do nothing here, but there is an easy path to add some middle of the pack starters whose marginal value would be big here.

[robbiestoupe]

As the offense is capable of moving from pathetic to competent without personnel additions. The pitching staff is another story. Either they concede 2022 as hopeless and spend another year seeing what they have in Keller and Brubaker. I obviously assume they will do nothing here, but there is an easy path to add some middle of the pack starters whose marginal value would be big here.

This is where they need to be creative, IMO. They have the depth on offense in the minors, but not so much pitching. There are some gems, but not enough to make up for the completely pathetic stable of arms in the upper levels.

Do they trade some of their younger offensive potential for a bona fide pitcher? Even if you're trading a potential blue chip in A for a No 2/3 starter, that may be the recipe required for success. You hope that Priester or Contreras turn out to be #1's, bc there's really no other way for the Pirates to acquire any that are close to the majors.

Or do they actually go into free agency next year or 2023? We know BN won't buy any big guns, but can they get a #2 or 3 to supplement the guys coming up? An AJ Burnett type would be ideal. Doesn't even have to be as effective as him, but a mentor, a leader, somebody to teach the young ones how to win.

There's even a good argument to get that #2/3 free agent now to help put this team in the right winning mindset. They may not help the club go anywhere next year, but hopefully they'd be useful by 2023/2024 when the team has a chance to compete.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

I don't think there is enough high-end depth in the pirates minor league system to trade away quality prospects for a pitcher with years of control.

[Morkle]

I think they go bargain bin hunting to see if they can get something useful out of guys that are past expiration date.

[Troy Loney]

Do they trade some of their younger offensive potential for a bona fide pitcher? Even if you're trading a potential blue chip in A for a No 2/3 starter, that may be the recipe required for success. You hope that Priester or Contreras turn out to be #1's, bc there's really no other way for the Pirates to acquire any that are close to the majors.

Or do they actually go into free agency next year or 2023? We know BN won't buy any big guns, but can they get a #2 or 3 to supplement the guys coming up? An AJ Burnett type would be ideal. Doesn't even have to be as effective as him, but a mentor, a leader, somebody to teach the young ones how to win.

There's even a good argument to get that #2/3 free agent now to help put this team in the right winning mindset. They may not help the club go anywhere next year, but hopefully they'd be useful by 2023/2024 when the team has a chance to compete.

Their current top 5/6 prospects are untouchable (Davis, Priester, Gonzalez, Cruz, Contreras, and maybe Pegeuro).

I think the system depth comes into play when that wave is established. I think the hope is, when the Pirates do get to that stage, they still have the system depth to make meaningful acquisitions, I think the NH years were marked by a chronically top-heavy system, so even when they had prospects like Bell and Glasnow, they always felt untouchable, and their other pieces were only good enough to get deadline rentals.

I think a Liriano type deal would make sense for them this offseason. Not sure what a mid-tier FA starter will costs, nor what they would be willing to spend. But I imagine the BC Pirates are the same as the NH Pirates in terms of FA. If there is a spending spree this offseason and ok pitchers are getting 4 -5 years, then they won't do anything.

[willeyeam]

i'm semi worried that all of our better looking prospects appear to be hitters outside of Priester

[Troy Loney]

i'm semi worried that all of our better looking prospects appear to be hitters outside of Priester

The only prospects at the upper levels are the guys they got last offseason (Cruz, Contreras and Yajure). Luckily Priester took a step forward this year, cause Tahnaj looks like a bust, and that was basically the extent of their pitching prospects before the fire sale and the last two drafts.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

Not that we need to rehash the failure of the past drafts of the past few years, but notable pitchers drafted since 2016:

Nick Lodolo (2016, supplemental round 1 pick, did not sign)
Travis McGregor (2016, 2nd round) missed 2019 perhaps with injury. missed 2020 like everyone. 6+ era at Curve PA
Braeden Ogle-(2016 4th round) Traded to the phillies for some Low A catcher
Blake Ciderland-(2016 5th round) On the 60 day IL. still not convinced he is a real person

Shane Baz-2017 first round. Don't remember how he left the organization, haven't heard any news about him recently. Couldn't find anything in the MLB top 100 prospects about him. Its like he disappeared from my consciousness for some reason.
Steven Jennings - 2017 2nd Round-10 games in AA this year
2018-Gunnar Hodglund didn't sign as a supplemental first rounder. Got drafted 19th overall this year after pitching at ol' miss. 2018 also had some randos toiling around in A ball.

Haven't spent a ton of high draft picks on pitchers otherwise.

[iamjs]

Shane Baz-2017 first round. Don't remember how he left the organization, haven't heard any news about him recently. Couldn't find anything in the MLB top 100 prospects about him. Its like he disappeared from my consciousness for some reason.

I know this is gonna sound far fetched, but... wait, nah, that couldn't be the same player.

Nvm.

[Dickie Dunn]

Nick Lodolo (2016, supplemental round 1 pick, did not sign)

Ended up getting drafted 7th by the Reds. Was excellent in AA this year before getting promoted to AAA and getting injured. Don’t remember the specifics of him not signing, but this is looking like another missed opportunity.

[Dickie Dunn]

San Diego was 59-43 at the time of the Adam Frazier trade. Have gone 19-35 since. Nice to see him carry the tradition of losing elsewhere.

[willeyeam]

He stinks

[Troy Loney]

Nick Lodolo (2016, supplemental round 1 pick, did not sign)

Ended up getting drafted 7th by the Reds. Was excellent in AA this year before getting promoted to AAA and getting injured. Don’t remember the specifics of him not signing, but this is looking like another missed opportunity.

The difference between NH and BC. NH would take these prep pitchers hoping he could get them to sign. BC did the majority of the negotiations before the draft.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

"The pirates are very skittish to have their pitchers run hard on the basepaths"
-greg brown, just right now, after Shelby miller did run out a ball.

baseball sucks

[willeyeam]

[LeopardLetang]

Huh. I haven't seen the first inning of a game since the first game of the year. I think hayes went deep right? I've watched total about an hour this year. I'll check out this start though

[willeyeam]

Same. I'm gonna try to watch this one. Maybe the 4th game this year I'll see