The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby **faftorial** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:50 pm

Has he always had such long hair or is it a sewn in wig like Cutch had?

Postby **Ad@m** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:21 pm

Postby **faftorial** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:38 pm

I bet a woman is behind all that.

Postby **Freddy Rumsen** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:12 pm

Bob Walk and the non-Greg Brown play-by-play guy were talking about possible names for the Cleveland team and he mentioned "the Steamers or something to do with the lake."

Postby **King Colby** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:16 pm

Clip asap. PS they did their best to blow a 10 run lead but feel just short

Postby **MR25** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:35 pm

Bob Walk and the non-Greg Brown play-by-play guy were talking about possible names for the Cleveland team and he mentioned "the Steamers or something to do with the lake."

That's 90s Pirate Legend Kevin Young to you.

Postby **Troy Loney** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:46 am

For whatever reason, I have been thinking about this, I think the Pirates should keep Frazier for next year, otherwise you might as well try and flip Reynolds now too.

They should definitely try and pull something for RichRod and get whatever they can for Anderson, but otherwise, they can't go into 2022 as a tank year. That doesn't mean they should view 2022 as a playoff run, but you don't just go from tank to playoffs unless your team has a ton of money and can commit 500mm in a single offseason. So you at least make some sort of effort early in Hayes' career to play competitive baseball.

That said, say you hold Frazier, then you immediately have your 1-2-3 for next year, they can have 1st and C covered decently with Moran and Stallings, maybe Cruz overtakes Newman at SS at some point and you can't even try to have poorer corner OF'ers than the current crop they have.

The issue of course is the starting pitching. Brubaker seems legit, so that's one. Not sure what happened to Steve Brault, but I think he's still on the team. Miggy Yajure should likely be a regular starter by the end of the season....and that's kind of it. They are looking at like a 40mm payroll for 2022, and that is factoring in big raises for Reynolds and Frazier. They can certainly make some additions on short term deals to upgrade to a not-comical level rotation.

This would simply allow them to make a run at .500, but to tank in 2022 they would have to sell off Frazier, Moran, Stalling and probably Reynolds, and that would be such BS to throw out a second year of Hayes with scrubs like Gamel and Tom and 162 game patchwork starting rotation. I know that's the more likely scenario, but just saying it's BS.

Postby **faftorial** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:51 am

Bob Walk and the non-Greg Brown play-by-play guy were talking about possible names for the Cleveland team and he mentioned "the Steamers or something to do with the lake."

That's 90s Pirate Legend Kevin Young to you.

He's not good. Speaks too softly and slowly.

Postby **faftorial** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:53 am

Kevin Young is the first Pirate that I can remember who wore the sockless look with his pant legs down to his shoes. That's a stupid look.

Postby **willeyeam** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:05 am

we had many years of mediocre rosters just trying to get to .500. That's for the birds imo. Frazier's value will never be higher than what it is right now. Plus for some reason I am still not personally convinced that he is actually good, so I'm biased in thinking that he will regress.

Postby **robbiestoupe** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:15 am

Right. Cutch had to go through some bad years as well, probably more than he should have since management didn't commit to the full rebuild. You keep selling until you have guys you developed start coming up through the system and populating permanent spots on the ML roster.

Ideally you would pepper in some FAs but you know that won't happen either. Even if they did some Liriano or Burnett acquisition, next year is not the year to do it.

Postby **Troy Loney** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:54 am

The Cutch years are unique. They never added help to the lineup. Walker, Alvarez and Marte were brought up, and they had rolling contributions from guys like Harrison and Kang. But essentially it was Cutch dragging the lineup along. The reason they competed was because the NH brain trust was able to get productivity out of strange places in the rotation and identify legit back-end bullpen guys. I think in 2011 and 2012 they flirted with competency before signing Martin and Liriano and getting over the top. 2012 they added Burnett and finished with 79 wins, so they were building up to the 2013 run.

This just goes to say, if you toil in **** again next year, you are getting into Hayes' arb years with nothing. They need to start putting getting something together to build on and start rolling the prospects into. The system is going to start producing MLB talent soon (Altoona is pretty loaded), but there's not a wave like the Astros and Cubs had. It's going to be single guys earning their way, who aren't going to transform the roster they make.

All that said, if they get offered a really good prospect, they have to trade Frazier. But, just unloading him for the type of package they got for Taillon and Musgrove is not the move.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:20 am

Kiley McDaniel’s mock draft last week once again had the Pirates taking Mayer, followed by Davis, House, Leiter, Watson, Lawlar, and Rocker.

Interesting discussion regarding Mayer vs. Lawlar where it is essentially a toss up in talent and potential, but a month of Lawlar being projected as the top pick combined with a firm commitment to Vandy and future status as a draft eligible sophomore has apparently made him the more expensive of the two to sign. A month of Mayer being projected at the top could have a similar impact on his signing price, though his USC commitment is seen as less stable and he would have to wait until his junior year to be draft eligible again. Regardless, it’s once again implied that with every prospect being so close on evaluation, signability will be the deciding factor.

Postby **robbiestoupe** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:34 am

This just goes to say, if you toil in **** again next year, you are getting into Hayes' arb years with nothing. They need to start putting getting something together to build on and start rolling the prospects into. The system is going to start producing MLB talent soon (Altoona is pretty loaded), but there's not a wave like the Astros and Cubs had. It's going to be single guys earning their way, who aren't going to transform the roster they make.

This is the bed the Pirates have made, and it sucks. They've never been able to get an inrush of talent to come together in 1-3 years. It's always 1 player here, 1 player there. That's fine, but you need to supplement that with FAs and other moves like they did in 2012-2013. Was that just luck? Can GMBC do the same?

Postby **willeyeam** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:35 am

has a 1st overall pick ever passed and went to college instead? that would be the dumbest move of all time. They're all signable at that spot, this is just positioning to get the most money

Postby **willeyeam** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:37 am

This just goes to say, if you toil in **** again next year, you are getting into Hayes' arb years with nothing. They need to start putting getting something together to build on and start rolling the prospects into. The system is going to start producing MLB talent soon (Altoona is pretty loaded), but there's not a wave like the Astros and Cubs had. It's going to be single guys earning their way, who aren't going to transform the roster they make.

Well I'm with you there, if we could add a decent FA or 2 this winter to sign for a few years I'd be in for that. I think 2023 they may be decent, and hopefully 24 will be the year to theoretically compete.

Postby **robbiestoupe** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:51 am

has a 1st overall pick ever passed and went to college instead? that would be the dumbest move of all time. They're all signable at that spot, this is just positioning to get the most money

Looks like there were 3 https://www.baseball-reference.com/bull ... teur_Draft

The first two probably weren't passing up much money. This Brady Aiken, however...

Postby **Troy Loney** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:54 am

has a 1st overall pick ever passed and went to college instead? that would be the dumbest move of all time. They're all signable at that spot, this is just positioning to get the most money
Looks like there were 3 https://www.baseball-reference.com/bull ... teur_Draft

The first two probably weren't passing up much money. This Brady Aiken, however...

The Aiken thing was injury related.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:56 am

has a 1st overall pick ever passed and went to college instead? that would be the dumbest move of all time. They're all signable at that spot, this is just positioning to get the most money

Brady Aiken in 2014. Injury issues came up during his physical so the Astros wanted to reduce the agreed upon bonus from $6.5MM to $5MM. Aiken walked and went to IMG’s postgraduate baseball academy, was pulled after one start, got TJ surgery, was selected 17th overall by Cleveland the following year, got a $2.5MM signing bonus, and has pitched in 0.2 innings since 2017. So yes, it’s the dumbest move of all time.

Only other high profile non-signing I can think of in recent history Mark Appel, who wanted above slot ($6MM) bonus money in 2012, so the Astros took Correa ($4.8MM). Appel was insistent on getting his first overall pick bonus money despite sliding to the Pirates at 8, didn’t sign, got picked first overall next year and signed for $6.35MM and has had a shitty minor league career since.

Postby **King Colby** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:05 pm

Theyre not going to be competitive with Hayes here, sad to say.

Trade frazier now. Keep Reynolds one more year. It's all about the stockpile for 2025.

Postby **willeyeam** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:09 pm

Haha how about this one

Pitcher Tim Belcher was the first overall pick in the 1983 amateur draft by the Minnesota Twins, but he did not sign with the club. He instead joined the USA national team in the 1983 Pan American Games (Bronze Medal) and Intercontinental Cup (Silver Medal). He was eligible for the draft again in January 1984 and was selected first overall by the New York Yankees in what was considered a major coup. But because of a front office mix-up, his name was left off the team's protected players' list for the free agent compensation draft and he was selected by the Oakland Athletics on February 8. George Steinbrenner was livid over this development and blamed young general manager Murray Cook for it, firing him in short order.

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:12 pm

Bob Walk and the non-Greg Brown play-by-play guy were talking about possible names for the Cleveland team and he mentioned "the Steamers or something to do with the lake."

That's 90s Pirate Legend Kevin Young to you.
He's not good. Speaks too softly and slowly.

I remember Kevin Young very well from watching the Bucs in the 90s and I remember even as a kid I thought he seemed kind of low energy.