COVID-19

count2infinity
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COVID-19

Postby count2infinity » Thu May 06, 2021 8:26 am

Moderna has said they won't enforce their patent rights on their vaccine, but simply saying that isn't good enough. I saw a thing yesterday that one of the motivations guiding Pfizer and Moderna in this area is that they don't want their IP out in the wild because they are working on COVID therapeutics that trade on some of the same ground, and they want to protect their market for those drugs, which are still months out. If that's true, that's super gross.
Just so we're clear here... there's a variety of types of IP. Patents are one area of that IP. An other (and potentially of more importance) side of IP is trade secrets. I'm sure you know this, but for the others who may not, when you patent something, you have disclose how that thing works. You put it out there so that you have protection should someone else try to do the same thing. Trade secrets are undisclosed...

If the ruling is that people can use the patents and Moderna, Pfizer, Biontech, whoever now can't go after people that are using the patented technology: cool. That's fine. But how exactly are they going to force companies to release trade secrets? And if they're not, won't this lead to companies not filing for patents and keep things proprietary as trade secrets? It just seems to me that this move will cause companies to share less rather than share more in the future.

meow
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COVID-19

Postby meow » Thu May 06, 2021 8:31 am

Some South Carolina schools ending their mask mandate next week.

Someone has to be the first. I’m sure everyone will be watching for how it goes. It’ll set a precedent moving forward

count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Thu May 06, 2021 8:36 am

Seems odd to do it now... there's a month left in school for most areas. Come back in the fall with fresh start.

That said, I think one of the reasons you haven't seen spread in schools is because of the precautions put in place. If numbers in those communities are low, it'll certainly be something to watch and see how it goes. If numbers in those communities are high, it's a bold move and one that I'm still interested to see how it goes.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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COVID-19

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Thu May 06, 2021 8:38 am

OK since no one can give an answer beyond the stock "hicks are stupid" I crunched some numbers.

We need 7 million Pennsylvanians (give or take) to get to 70%. There are 67 counties.

Biden won 13 counties in PA. Based on my rough estimate, there are 5.5 million adults in these counties. He won 13 of the 22 most populous counties in the state. Assuming that our science trusting, biden voting counties get an 80% success rate, that means 4.4 million vaccinated people. That means we need 2.6 million science hating, trump loving, angry facebook posting people in Trump counties to get the shot. By my count, there are 4.5 adults in trump voting counties. so that means they need like a 57% success rate in Trump counties to get a shot.
Pretty much all of the data on vaccinations can be found on the Commonwealth's vaccine dashboard.

https://www.health.pa.gov/topics/diseas ... board.aspx

The "it's country hicks who aren't getting vaccinated" is somewhat falsified by the dashboard. The top 10 counties with the highest percentages of residents fully vaccinated are Montour, Forest, Lackawanna, Elk, Butler, Allegheny, Cameron, Erie, Lehigh, and Washington, with Fayettenam just missing the cut at 11. The lowest by far? Philadelphia. Yes, some very rural counties like Fulton, Potter, and Mckean are near the bottom, but some very urban and suburban counties are well below average, and some rural counties are leading the pack.

The dashboard says that the eligible population is 10.6 million. PA in total is 32.2% fully vaccinated and 17.9% partially vaccinated. If the partials all get their second shots, that's right around 50%. So we'd still need 20% or around 2.1 million more people to get their jabs. We could get around a third of that number from Philadelphia county alone if even half of the people in Philly get vaccinated. Philly is very much dragging down the numbers for the rest of the state.
One thing to point out: philly is handling their rollout on their own. So their numbers can be found here:

https://www.phila.gov/programs/coronavi ... a/vaccine/

meow
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COVID-19

Postby meow » Thu May 06, 2021 8:39 am

I don’t think it’s odd at all. Look at it like a pilot project. A fresh start in the fall with no reference data? A lot more risky than having at least something to refer back to. It’ll be a wealth of knowledge from a decision making process.

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COVID-19

Postby shmenguin » Thu May 06, 2021 9:02 am

Also getting pretty hot in the south. I get it “just a small inconvenience”. Maybe kids hate wearing them in hot schools with crappy/non-existent air conditioning when it’s 85 degrees out. Maybe that’s actually something that matters. Kids hating the physical environment they’re supposed to learn in seems like a thing to watch.

count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Thu May 06, 2021 9:11 am

Yes... we know, shmenguin. You hate masks.

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COVID-19

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Thu May 06, 2021 9:12 am

Also getting pretty hot in the south. I get it “just a small inconvenience”. Maybe kids hate wearing them in hot schools with crappy/non-existent air conditioning when it’s 85 degrees out. Maybe that’s actually something that matters. Kids hating the physical environment they’re supposed to learn in seems like a thing to watch.
Have you ever been down here? We wear shoes and stuff now.

Lexington-Richland is one the richest school districts in the state.

shmenguin
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COVID-19

Postby shmenguin » Thu May 06, 2021 9:15 am

Also getting pretty hot in the south. I get it “just a small inconvenience”. Maybe kids hate wearing them in hot schools with crappy/non-existent air conditioning when it’s 85 degrees out. Maybe that’s actually something that matters. Kids hating the physical environment they’re supposed to learn in seems like a thing to watch.
Have you ever been down here? We wear shoes and stuff now.

Lexington-Richland is one the richest school districts in the state.
Ah yes. Therefore Jasper county doesn’t exist.

Freddy Rumsen
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COVID-19

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Thu May 06, 2021 9:19 am

Besides 85 degrees is not hot.

shmenguin
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COVID-19

Postby shmenguin » Thu May 06, 2021 9:20 am

Yes... we know, shmenguin. You hate masks.
don't hate masks. wore mine all year. never worried about covid. thank goodness for their efficacy.

i hate theater. which we're in right now.

but i'm not chaffed either way on this. it's an indoor thing where kids aren't vaxed. it does give me the willies but it's still something to consider. do your thing, red states. happy to have guinea pigs.

skullman80
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COVID-19

Postby skullman80 » Thu May 06, 2021 9:53 am

First day back in the office in over a year and two months. The new building is really nice. Feels weird.

NAN
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COVID-19

Postby NAN » Thu May 06, 2021 10:05 am

First day back in the office in over a year and two months. The new building is really nice. Feels weird.
I think there are going to be a lot more people going back to the office, maybe not full time, but at least 3-4 days a week within the next 2 months.

I think the dream of having everyone work remotely is going to be a lot smaller than what we imagined.

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COVID-19

Postby skullman80 » Thu May 06, 2021 10:10 am

First day back in the office in over a year and two months. The new building is really nice. Feels weird.
I think there are going to be a lot more people going back to the office, maybe not full time, but at least 3-4 days a week within the next 2 months.

I think the dream of having everyone work remotely is going to be a lot smaller than what we imagined.
We will go back to 3 days in office/2 days at home like we were pre-pandemic. I fully expected that. The new building only made that more of a reality, and it is nice to see everyone again after a year. I'd still rather be full remote, and I can work from home whenever I want even beyond the 2 days a week.... but it was just weird driving in today and actually going into an office again. Still fully masked up and only at 25% capacity here, but the new building my company built it pretty much state of the art.

NTP66
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COVID-19

Postby NTP66 » Thu May 06, 2021 10:11 am

My old office building is over 100 years old...

skullman80
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COVID-19

Postby skullman80 » Thu May 06, 2021 10:16 am

This is just a one off day, but I expect once restrictions are lifted on capacity at the end of the Month that probably by July or so we will be back to how it was before. It sucks wearing a mask all day though inside.

Still have to figure out parking situation with parking passes and such once we come back to full capacity... since we share with google. Company is paying 80% of any parking passes so that is nice I guess. We shall see.

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COVID-19

Postby NAN » Thu May 06, 2021 10:21 am

Yeah, I know my company is reviewing the back to work survey's they sent out, and I do know that an overwhelming majority is that people want to continue to WFH, have flexibility, but also have the option to go into the office if/when necessary.

But what I'm expecting is that most of the large companies in the area are going to fall in line with their peers. I know Dick's is having people go back I believe 4 days a week, or even full time starting in July (mainly because they built a new office as well), Thermo Fisher is having people going back to the office 3 days, and PNC and BoNY just announced they are having people come back to the office. So I expect the US Steel's, PPG's, Alcoa's, etc to follow suit regardless of what the employees want. They have no competitive disadvantage vs their peers if everyone is going back.

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COVID-19

Postby shafnutz05 » Thu May 06, 2021 12:33 pm

Yeah, we are 100% going back after Labor Day. At this point, if I can keep one of my WFH days (ideally Fridays), I will settle for that.

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COVID-19

Postby Dickie Dunn » Thu May 06, 2021 12:52 pm

We had numerous people move out of the area during the pandemic while keeping their jobs due to the ease, availability, and success of remote work. I refuse to be punished because I live 30 minutes away instead of 90.

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COVID-19

Postby nocera » Thu May 06, 2021 12:54 pm

Yes... we know, shmenguin. You hate masks.
The fight continues... again.

count2infinity
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COVID-19

Postby count2infinity » Thu May 06, 2021 1:30 pm


meow
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Postby meow » Thu May 06, 2021 1:38 pm

Bwhahahaha

shoeshine boy
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COVID-19

Postby shoeshine boy » Thu May 06, 2021 2:06 pm

that's awesome!

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Thu May 06, 2021 2:27 pm

Moderna has said they won't enforce their patent rights on their vaccine, but simply saying that isn't good enough. I saw a thing yesterday that one of the motivations guiding Pfizer and Moderna in this area is that they don't want their IP out in the wild because they are working on COVID therapeutics that trade on some of the same ground, and they want to protect their market for those drugs, which are still months out. If that's true, that's super gross.
Just so we're clear here... there's a variety of types of IP. Patents are one area of that IP. An other (and potentially of more importance) side of IP is trade secrets. I'm sure you know this, but for the others who may not, when you patent something, you have disclose how that thing works. You put it out there so that you have protection should someone else try to do the same thing. Trade secrets are undisclosed...

If the ruling is that people can use the patents and Moderna, Pfizer, Biontech, whoever now can't go after people that are using the patented technology: cool. That's fine. But how exactly are they going to force companies to release trade secrets? And if they're not, won't this lead to companies not filing for patents and keep things proprietary as trade secrets? It just seems to me that this move will cause companies to share less rather than share more in the future.
Trade secrets are a different kettle of fish, and not really apropos to the manufacture of completed pharmacologic products. Research and development phase? Certainly. And I guess that's potentially where Pfizer and Moderna are worried about loosing their vaccines to 3rd parties. But I'm not sure what sort of information would be disclosed in a manufacturing license agreement that wouldn't be public knowledge as part of the patent filings. However you look at it, bellyaching about IP rights during a once-in-a-century global pandemic isn't really a good look. They jointly achieved one of the greatest scientific accomplishments of my lifetime, and are now sullying themselves in a "but muh shareholder profitz!" whinge.

I do not think canceling these patents will affect business practices going forward.

count2infinity
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COVID-19

Postby count2infinity » Thu May 06, 2021 2:30 pm

Source of the post I do not think canceling these patents will affect business practices going forward.
I agree, but I also do not believe that opening the patents for use by others will solve the bottleneck considering Moderna already said they won't enforce their patent rights...

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