2020 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Club Thread

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2275&hilit=Chris+archer&start=1850

Some BLAZING hot takes:

Might be Meadows and Glasnow.

I would two thumbs up this.

Raise it. Today was a fun day to be a Pirate fan

Meadows, Glasnow and undecided third piece.

Glasnow obviously expendable, but Meadows is a tough loss.

The more I think about it the more excited I am about the Pirates dumping Meadows and Glasnow. Two prospects that had reached their ceiling and were not going to go anywhere, cleared out for better prospects like Martin and Keller.

The moves they made at the deadline were about 2019 and 2020, not really this year.

This year was crushed by May and June.

The composition of this team demanded a significant addition to the rotation, a Troy Loney pipe dream was that they would use FA to make that acquisition. Pirate reality was to micro target a getable starting pitcher with a palatable contract.

I do question if the pirates make that trade without an 11 game win streak.

But in the long run, that trade is as much about the future as it is right now. I don't think this team, even with one more reliever and a legit starting pitcher, is a playoff contender.

[Freddy Rumsen]

Ouch

[willeyeam]

Shut up kangaroo

[King Colby]

Not nice

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

Not nice

Great job bucs

[Dickie Dunn]

I have no idea which one of those quotes is mine, but I was in favor of the trade. At the time the Pirates still had a great outfield post Cutch and there was no room for Meadows on a consistent basis. Glasnow was an absolute mess and getting worse. If the Pirates kept him he probably would have been DFA’d by now after putting up a double digit ERA. The Pirates were two seasons removed from a 98 win season, were 56-52 at the time of the trade, and were getting a good pitcher who had fallen into a prolonged rough patch and employed a pitching coach with a long streak of fixing talented messes. A spare part and a failing prospect for a former All Star who is still young enough to get his groove back? Sign me up.

The Baz PTBNL sucked, but the reality became even worse. Polanco truly sucks, the Searage magic was gone, Archer was completely washed up and often injured, the Pirates were actively ruining Glasnow who was saved by leaving the franchise, and Meadows was better than the outfielders were kept.

It was a terrible trade that brought about a shitty situation that was exacerbated by the fact that the Pirates traded half of their worthwhile prospects and aren’t willing to spend. Teams that draft well can overcome the loss of a couple prospects and teams with money think make $11MM mistakes all the time because that’s the going price for a half decent back of the rotation starter. The Pirates are, unfortunately, neither.

[King Colby]

Not nice

Great job bucs

Clearly sarcasm, probably

[Troy Loney]

At that point I still believed that they knew what they were doing. The mishandling of Glasnow, and Cole before that, was borderline criminal. NH and Hurdle had some competencies that brought the organization to a new level, but clearly had some massive blindspots where being constantly wasted on their own kool-let them be ignored and turn the organization back into an absolute dumpster fire.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

There were plenty of reasons to like the trade. GMNH actually made a decision that made the team better that day. The pirates got a guy with a several years of team friendly control, which mattered to the pirates but not so much the fans. Plus, I think we were all just over the Glasnow experience. I forgot that he spent most of the season wallowing in this purgatory on the team as reliever but not used in important situations but not trusted to be a starter. He had no reason to be in AAA, but he couldn't be trusted in games. Obviously some of that is on Glasnow but we can also fairly blame the organization for screwing him up.

I also forgot how that 2018 was such a trainwreck. I looked through the rest of that thread and we were all generally happy with a 500 season, but the bullpen coming into the season was an embarrassment (though was very good at the end), bell was a bummer, marte was erratic, and SRod got way, way too many at bats.

The real question i have is this: If glasnow stuck around and panned out, how much would 2019 and 2020 be different? Glasnow helps this rotation but he doesn't keep Taillon (who is like one of those toys for dogs that has limbs that easily rip off) healthy. Reynolds never gets a shot at the big leagues, but the team still trades marte. i doubt the presence of glasnow and meadows keeps Rivero on the right side of the law. Long story short, unless Glasnow was really good and the pirates were able to trade him right around now for worthwhile players, the team would still stink.

[Dickie Dunn]

Vazquez’s kiddie diddlin went back to 2017 when he was still Rivero. Glasnow and Meadows would have needed a time machine and if they had one they should head to the 2015 offseason and slap GMNH and CFOBN around a bit.

[DigitalGypsy66]

Kela and Holland also became free agents.

There should be more activity today as they need to get rid of 5 players to make room for injured players on the 40 man roster.

Trevor Williams? Bye....

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

WEll O’Neil Cruz is on the 40 man roster. I suppose that frees up a spot

[Troy Loney]

Archer declined

[King Colby]

At the time of that trade it wasn't clear yet that there was a major issue with the organizational philosophy around player development. We didn't know the issue with Glasnow was deployment related... playing him to the organizational idea of a pitcher rather than his own abilities.

[LeopardLetang]

Really I thought that's exactly what we were complaining about. Trying to make him the mold. That's what we were blaming Cole on I thought.

[LeopardLetang]

I was depressed by the trade but the idea seemed like progress. I hadn't given up on Glasnow but reasonable people should have. I remember thinking he was turning a corner just be keeping a 4.60ish ERA at one point. He was just so crazy dominant that even though stat heads would show no one could walk that many in the minors and succeed in the majors I was still dreamy eyed over him. But I don't take any credit as I never give up on prospects generally and am almost always wrong. But also Meadows - I was declining on him but his surge in his debut reignited what I expected from him. Also Archer had some bad looking peripherals I think. I would have been happier without the trade but I expected it was the right move. And then the Baz add ugh.

[DigitalGypsy66]

Burdi DFA’ed after his second Tommy John surgery this offseason. Feel bad for the dude.

[willeyeam]

Damn. That sucks

[King Colby]

I assume he will get brought back on a minor league deal

[DigitalGypsy66]

[King Colby]

But who will give up a run an inning for 2 years but still appear in games?

[robbiestoupe]

Glasnow was sort of an enigma. He wasn't a highly touted prospect to begin with, but the Pirates found something with him and he rose through the system with very impressive numbers. His control was always an issue, but he had like 4 levels to figure it out. He never really did by the time he got to the bigs, but also forgot how to pitch altogether.

So while the Pirates are at fault for not getting all they could out of him, would he have even made it to the majors on another team? Their cookie cutter program for pitchers may have done wonders for him to get him to where he was, but they needed to break the mold at some point and never did.

[LeopardLetang]

1.93 93.1 32 140 .176 0.95

This gets you to the majors at 23 anywhere. Especially with a blazing fastball. But I'm guessing after he bombed in the majors they decided to be more strict about his pitch selection which didn't seem to help.

[King Colby]

I may have worded my post poorly. I am saying that the pirates should have let Glasnow be Glasnow instead of an ideological pirates pitcher

[LeopardLetang]

No you made sense. I agree. The whole make their uniquely talented pitchers into clones of their surprisingly successful retread guys using the fastball/sinker groundball strategy was embarrassing and highlighted when Cole left and became what we expected he could be.