Worst takes on this message board

[faftorial]

Top face off % career wise (since keeping this stat I assume):

https://records.nhl.com/records/skater- ... ctg-career

Bergeron is the highest of active players at 57.67%. That's a big part of his game.

[faftorial]

Now I see this is face offs since 2005... Why?

[shmenguin]

Top face off % career wise (since keeping this stat I assume):

https://records.nhl.com/records/skater- ... ctg-career

Bergeron is the highest of active players at 57.67%. That's a big part of his game.

That is not a big part of his game. It’s 2 extra wins a night. That is at best a medium part of his game.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

Now I see this is face offs since 2005... Why?

I was curious so I looked up Mario’s face off numbers. Didn’t see anything before the 2000s. I’m guessing they didn’t start keeping the stat until the new millennium

[faftorial]

Top face off % career wise (since keeping this stat I assume):

https://records.nhl.com/records/skater- ... ctg-career

Bergeron is the highest of active players at 57.67%. That's a big part of his game.

That is not a big part of his game. It’s 2 extra wins a night. That is at best a medium part of his game.

Yeah, the stat should be distilled down further to factor in some sort of "importance of face off" variable.

[willeyeam]

2 extra wins is a 4 possession swing. That's not insignificant imo

[shafnutz05]

This.... Interesting conversation did remind me of the classic mustache boy competitions. That could be the kind of spark this team needs before game 6.

[tifosi77]

Also, to the Bergeron example, remember he takes over 20 draws a game. When you're hitting at over 60% on that kind of workload, that's a lot more than '2 extra wins'. It's more like + 6 or 7 vs the 55% guy who's taking 15 draws, which is a huge swing in possessions.

[shmenguin]

Also, to the Bergeron example, remember he takes over 20 draws a game. When you're hitting at over 60% on that kind of workload, that's a lot more than '2 extra wins'. It's more like + 6 or 7 vs the 55% guy who's taking 15 draws, which is a huge swing in possessions.

what math is this.

bergeron wins 12 out of 20. league average is 10 out of 20.

12 minus 10....i'll leave that advanced algorithm to you egg heads to sort out.

[count2infinity]

If shmenguin's point is that there is no one who is truly dominant in faceoffs and every faceoff is closer to 50:50 than it is to 100:0. I agree.

[tifosi77]

55% win percentage is top 20 overall, most of those average around 12-15 draws a game. That's around 6-8 wins a game. Bergeron averages over 20 drops per game and wins 12 of them.

[shmenguin]

that's...something

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

If shmenguin's point is that there is no one who is truly dominant in faceoffs and every faceoff is closer to 50:50 than it is to 100:0. I agree.

no one is making that counter argument

shmenguin's point seems to be that faceoffs are completely random and that you can't possibly be skilled/work on faceoff taking skills. which is an insane position

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

isn't this kind of like saying the difference between a 275 hitter and a 325 hitter in baseball is roughly 1 extra hit every six games?

[meow]

just one more dying quail a week and you're in yankee stadium

[count2infinity]

If shmenguin's point is that there is no one who is truly dominant in faceoffs and every faceoff is closer to 50:50 than it is to 100:0. I agree.

no one is making that counter argument

shmenguin's point seems to be that faceoffs are completely random and that you can't possibly be skilled/work on faceoff taking skills. which is an insane position

Agreed with that as well.

[meow]

I see the argument from shmengy here, but I think his messaging and language are off. I think when he said “random” he meant “I random” and I think when he said “insignificant” he meant significant.

[willeyeam]

Also, to the Bergeron example, remember he takes over 20 draws a game. When you're hitting at over 60% on that kind of workload, that's a lot more than '2 extra wins'. It's more like + 6 or 7 vs the 55% guy who's taking 15 draws, which is a huge swing in possessions.

what math is this.

bergeron wins 12 out of 20. league average is 10 out of 20.

12 minus 10....i'll leave that advanced algorithm to you egg heads to sort out.

if he wins 12 out of 20 that means his opponent wins 8 out of 20. A 4 possession swing on average per game is good imo

[meow]

Let’s not get bogged down in stats here.

Do you want the puck or not?

[count2infinity]

Yes... c2i wants the puck.

[meow]

Do you actually want the puck or are you just saying you want the puck?

[count2infinity]

I want the puck.

[robbiestoupe]

SHOOOOOOOT

THA

PUCK!!

[shmenguin]

Also, to the Bergeron example, remember he takes over 20 draws a game. When you're hitting at over 60% on that kind of workload, that's a lot more than '2 extra wins'. It's more like + 6 or 7 vs the 55% guy who's taking 15 draws, which is a huge swing in possessions.

what math is this.

bergeron wins 12 out of 20. league average is 10 out of 20.

12 minus 10....i'll leave that advanced algorithm to you egg heads to sort out.

if he wins 12 out of 20 that means his opponent wins 8 out of 20. A 4 possession swing on average per game is good imo

that's taking tif's weird math to another level.

Bergeron vs. replacement-level center put in his spot is what you want to look at (using the word "want" loosely). if you removed king of all faceoffs from the game and yanked in an average center, you go from 12/20 to 10/20. so Bergeron's "WAR" is +2. not 6/7

[shmenguin]

Do you actually want the puck or are you just saying you want the puck?

nope. i'd rather everyone think i'm right.