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NAN
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Postby NAN » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:58 pm

nobody under a certain age cares about James Bond or Daniel Craig, so they changed the model. same reason why the Pope is now cool with gay people.
I don't think that's true considering it's one of the all time most successful film franchises and still does pretty well in the box office.
another movie thread crossover (Up still stinks). but being all time most successful doesn't tell you about modern adoption.

i dunno...i could easily be wrong. i just don't get the sense that Bond means much anymore.
Skyfall made $1.1B worldwide and Spectre made $850M worldwide. That's pretty damn good. We'll see how the new Bond does when it comes out this year.

Edit: Should have kept reading. :pop:

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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:00 pm

stories like this are comical(ly depressing). Do you think the person who approved the final bill approved it with a straight face? what percentage of people can pay $1.7 million in medical treatment without going into harrowing and debilitating debt?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-citizen ... hernandez/

U.S. citizen billed $1.7 million by government for life-saving burn treatment: "Completely hopeless"

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Postby Morkle » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:01 pm

Fast and Furious gets **** (some of it deservedly so) for being corny but they're one of the best examples of organic diversity. All of the diversity in the films is natural but good. Characters of all races, ethnicities and strong female characters. I'm not sure if they actually would do this, but they could introduce a trans character and I think it would go over very well. Don't make a huge point of it but just "hey I'm trans", "cool" and then they do stupid stuff with cars the rest of the movie
I look at it as being organic because they're new roles that haven't been portrayed as one way, and now have to be something different because of diversity and inclusion.

Bond is a poor example, because anyone can play the part, as long as they look the part, imo.

Ghostbusters is a good example because Hollywood wanted to completely re-brand the movie and make an all-female cast. Which is totally fine, but came off as a money making ploy built off of an absolutely cult classic hit. If it had been a true spin-off fine, but it didn't come across that way and just seemed fake for the fake of it.

To me, some of these changes are made because "well we have to change it so we hit our inclusion quote" and it always comes off bad, or whitewashing or whatever you want to call it. Just seems fake.

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Postby Morkle » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:03 pm

Like Batman I would largely have issue with, because there's a specific universe written for a specific character, and I don't know how I'd feel if a POC was playing Batman instead. It just wouldn't feel like Batman, if that made sense.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:04 pm

Huh


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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:05 pm

Like Batman I would largely have issue with, because there's a specific universe written for a specific character, and I don't know how I'd feel if a POC was playing Batman instead. It just wouldn't feel like Batman, if that made sense.
I agree and it goes back to a comment nocera made. Miles Morales is a different character than Peter Parker so that works. Don't make Bruce Wayne black. Make a new character

though I would prefer they move to a new universe/story than staying in the same one and introducing new characters

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Postby NAN » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:08 pm

Outside of this conversation, when you ask somebody to describe the James Bond character, nobody in their right mind is going to include "white" in their description.
Go out and ask someone if James Bond is white or black.
The moment where the laughable defenders of "white male Bond" lose the argument is when they claim that (a) Ian Fleming must be turning in his grave seeing this, yet (b) they are COMPLETELY OK with the fact that this fairy take figure Bond moves through decades like Connor MacLeod without any signs of aging, battles enemies that had not existed during the lifetime of the original author, fires guns that have not existed. And yet the defenders of white Bond are completely against the idea that during the last 50 years, the norms of the society might have evolved.

"Bond" is a magic character who has the licence to kick ass. In 1950s, it is inconceivable that a person in that position would be anything but white. But if you are willing to sit in the movie theater enjoying "Bond" kick ass in 2020+, the idea that in the last 50 years the society advanced to the point that this top ass kicking agent may be Black, or woman pretty much must be on the table by default...

And, BTW, James Bond is boring...
There are plenty of asskicking black, female, chinese, or whatever you want to insert spys, special agents, etc in movies. And I enjoy them, and wouldn't want their characters rewritten "just because".

Don't see what the big deal is keeping James Bond the character he has been for over a half of a century. Just my opinion.

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Postby tifosi77 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:10 pm


Vocal majority, actual minority.
When 60% of the GOP still believes the election was stolen I'm not so sure they are the minority.
I dont buy this statistic. I know you're not making it up but I would really question the entity who ran/published it
I just did a quick Google, and my first three results pointed to three different outlets citing three different polls showing broadly the same number.

Majority of Republicans say 2020 election was invalid: poll
More than two-thirds of Republicans say the 2020 presidential election was invalid, according to a new survey.

The poll from the R Street Institute, a free markets group, found that 67 percent of Republicans view the past election as invalid, compared to 23 percent who believe it was valid.

About half of all Republicans said they believe their votes were counted, while 42 percent said the system is corrupt and that their vote “probably doesn’t get counted anyway.”
Three-quarters of Republicans believe a lie about the 2020 election
Donald Trump spent the three months between the November election and the inauguration of Joe Biden as the 46th president insisting -- via public pronouncement and tweet -- that the 2020 race had been stolen from him.

Despite the fact that he never provided ANY evidence to back up that claim -- and the fact that courts across the country roundly rejected lawsuits on the matter as specious (at best) -- Trump quite clearly convinced lots and lots of Republicans of his false view.
How many? Try 76% of self-identified Republicans in a new national Quinnipiac University poll. That's the number of Republicans who said they believe there was "widespread fraud in the 2020 election."
Poll finds 65% of Republicans say they don’t believe Biden’s election was legitimate
About two-thirds of Republicans say Joe Biden was not legitimately elected president, according to a new poll conducted barely two weeks after he was inaugurated.

The poll from the Associated Press–NORC Center for Public Affairs Research shows 33% of Republicans say Biden was legitimately elected as the 46th president of the United States, while 65% say he was not. Overall, roughly two-thirds of Americans say Biden was legitimately elected, with nearly all Democrats saying so.

Former President Donald Trump and his allies disputed the outcome of the 2020 election for months, arguing without evidence that it was stolen and that there was fraudulent voting in pivotal states. Courts dismissed those allegations in lawsuits. State and local election officials verified — and, in some cases, reverified — that voting was fair and secure. Trump’s own attorney general said there was no evidence of widespread fraud.
Granted, these results were from February........ but what's changed since then to indicate a shift in these winds? This is the Republican Party in 2021.

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Postby NAN » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:11 pm

Like Batman I would largely have issue with, because there's a specific universe written for a specific character, and I don't know how I'd feel if a POC was playing Batman instead. It just wouldn't feel like Batman, if that made sense.
I agree and it goes back to a comment nocera made. Miles Morales is a different character than Peter Parker so that works. Don't make Bruce Wayne black. Make a new character

though I would prefer they move to a new universe/story than staying in the same one and introducing new characters
:thumb:

NAN
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Postby NAN » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:11 pm

I like when Tif wakes up and comes in to catch up 3 hours later. :D

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Postby nocera » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:13 pm

Like Batman I would largely have issue with, because there's a specific universe written for a specific character, and I don't know how I'd feel if a POC was playing Batman instead. It just wouldn't feel like Batman, if that made sense.
This is interesting. Comics have plenty of examples of changing the race of a long-standing character. Calvin Ellis as Superman, John Stewart as Green Latern, Miles Morales as Spiderman, Nick Fury. I'm sure I'm missing a few. I don't think Batman was ever changed though.

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Postby Tomas » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:14 pm

Outside of this conversation, when you ask somebody to describe the James Bond character, nobody in their right mind is going to include "white" in their description.
Go out and ask someone if James Bond is white or black.
The moment where the laughable defenders of "white male Bond" lose the argument is when they claim that (a) Ian Fleming must be turning in his grave seeing this, yet (b) they are COMPLETELY OK with the fact that this fairy take figure Bond moves through decades like Connor MacLeod without any signs of aging, battles enemies that had not existed during the lifetime of the original author, fires guns that have not existed. And yet the defenders of white Bond are completely against the idea that during the last 50 years, the norms of the society might have evolved.

"Bond" is a magic character who has the licence to kick ass. In 1950s, it is inconceivable that a person in that position would be anything but white. But if you are willing to sit in the movie theater enjoying "Bond" kick ass in 2020+, the idea that in the last 50 years the society advanced to the point that this top ass kicking agent may be Black, or woman pretty much must be on the table by default...

And, BTW, James Bond is boring...
There are plenty of asskicking black, female, chinese, or whatever you want to insert spys, special agents, etc in movies. And I enjoy them, and wouldn't want their characters rewritten "just because".

Don't see what the big deal is keeping James Bond the character he has been for over a half of a century. Just my opinion.
But nobody is re-writing/casting James Bond. If all of his adventures were in 1960s, I would agree.

The point is - each new "Bond" is yet another iteration of the FANTASY fairy-tale figure story, simply anchored into "present time", subject to "present enemies", featuring "present cars", "present weaponry" - and thus it should also reflect present societal norms.
Last edited by Tomas on Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby King Colby » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:14 pm

Lol

I love this so much

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Postby nocera » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:15 pm

Like Batman I would largely have issue with, because there's a specific universe written for a specific character, and I don't know how I'd feel if a POC was playing Batman instead. It just wouldn't feel like Batman, if that made sense.
I agree and it goes back to a comment nocera made. Miles Morales is a different character than Peter Parker so that works. Don't make Bruce Wayne black. Make a new character

though I would prefer they move to a new universe/story than staying in the same one and introducing new characters
Bruce Wayne no. Batman yes.

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:15 pm


Vocal majority, actual minority.
When 60% of the GOP still believes the election was stolen I'm not so sure they are the minority.
I dont buy this statistic. I know you're not making it up but I would really question the entity who ran/published it
I just did a quick Google, and my first three results pointed to three different outlets citing three different polls showing broadly the same number.

Majority of Republicans say 2020 election was invalid: poll
More than two-thirds of Republicans say the 2020 presidential election was invalid, according to a new survey.

The poll from the R Street Institute, a free markets group, found that 67 percent of Republicans view the past election as invalid, compared to 23 percent who believe it was valid.

About half of all Republicans said they believe their votes were counted, while 42 percent said the system is corrupt and that their vote “probably doesn’t get counted anyway.”
Three-quarters of Republicans believe a lie about the 2020 election
Donald Trump spent the three months between the November election and the inauguration of Joe Biden as the 46th president insisting -- via public pronouncement and tweet -- that the 2020 race had been stolen from him.

Despite the fact that he never provided ANY evidence to back up that claim -- and the fact that courts across the country roundly rejected lawsuits on the matter as specious (at best) -- Trump quite clearly convinced lots and lots of Republicans of his false view.
How many? Try 76% of self-identified Republicans in a new national Quinnipiac University poll. That's the number of Republicans who said they believe there was "widespread fraud in the 2020 election."
Poll finds 65% of Republicans say they don’t believe Biden’s election was legitimate
About two-thirds of Republicans say Joe Biden was not legitimately elected president, according to a new poll conducted barely two weeks after he was inaugurated.

The poll from the Associated Press–NORC Center for Public Affairs Research shows 33% of Republicans say Biden was legitimately elected as the 46th president of the United States, while 65% say he was not. Overall, roughly two-thirds of Americans say Biden was legitimately elected, with nearly all Democrats saying so.

Former President Donald Trump and his allies disputed the outcome of the 2020 election for months, arguing without evidence that it was stolen and that there was fraudulent voting in pivotal states. Courts dismissed those allegations in lawsuits. State and local election officials verified — and, in some cases, reverified — that voting was fair and secure. Trump’s own attorney general said there was no evidence of widespread fraud.
Granted, these results were from February........ but what's changed since then to indicate a shift in these winds? This is the Republican Party in 2021.
I still stand by my response bias explanation. I think a lot of the republican voters that are disturbed and dismayed by Trumpism are less likely to identify as a republican to a pollster, or just not be interested in answering a pollster who got their information from the GOP voter rolls. The mental cases that are animated by the voter fraud, info wars nonsense are the ones more likely to respond to GOP pollsters right now.

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Postby tifosi77 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:15 pm

When MTG raises that much money in a quarter, I can guarantee her voice is not only not going to fade, it's feeling empowered that the **** she is spewing is right.
We'll see. That quarter was during the height of the Big Steal and the immediate aftermath. You may be right though. Only time will tell.
The most telling thing about that report is the 100,000 individual donors number. Don't know the specific breakdown of her fundraising report, but the national average is that fewer than 2% of the adult population donates $200 or more to a campaign. The population of her district is on par with most districts, at around 750,000. So that strongly implies that a giant chunk of that money is coming from outside of GA-14. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that, but it points to a broader sense of where the party - or at least those who vote for its candidates - is in this moment.

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Postby NAN » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:21 pm

Like Batman I would largely have issue with, because there's a specific universe written for a specific character, and I don't know how I'd feel if a POC was playing Batman instead. It just wouldn't feel like Batman, if that made sense.
This is interesting. Comics have plenty of examples of changing the race of a long-standing character. Calvin Ellis as Superman, John Stewart as Green Latern, Miles Morales as Spiderman, Nick Fury. I'm sure I'm missing a few. I don't think Batman was ever changed though.
Yeah, but a lot of those examples, they are completely different characters, and some cases, in a different universe. I think Nick Fury is the only one that was the same character with a total rewrite. Which I'm fine with. But Clark Kent never changed. Hal Jordan never changed.

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:22 pm



Lol

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:22 pm

I think most of us agree that diversity = good but forced diversity = bad
forced diversity in school boards and juries and whatnot where the makeup of the group represents the community demographics...that's a good thing imo.
I wouldn’t really consider that forced. I’m more talking about hiring a black person over a white person even if a white person is more qualified or remaking Ghostbusters with female Ghostbusters rather than a new IP like the Alien franchise that has a strong female character more organically
It should be noted that when the script was bought by Brandywine, the 7 crew members were specifically listed as gender neutral to give the ultimate filmmakers flexibility in casting. But the writers had no intention of making Ripley (who does not emerge as the lead until an hour into the film) a woman; the producers thought it would give them an edge in getting the film green lit once Fox bought it, because the studio was on a run of making movies with female leads, and they thought having a woman lead would give them an edge. It was actually quite cynical.

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Postby nocera » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:23 pm

Like Batman I would largely have issue with, because there's a specific universe written for a specific character, and I don't know how I'd feel if a POC was playing Batman instead. It just wouldn't feel like Batman, if that made sense.
This is interesting. Comics have plenty of examples of changing the race of a long-standing character. Calvin Ellis as Superman, John Stewart as Green Latern, Miles Morales as Spiderman, Nick Fury. I'm sure I'm missing a few. I don't think Batman was ever changed though.
Yeah, but a lot of those examples, they are completely different characters, and some cases, in a different universe. I think Nick Fury is the only one that was the same character with a total rewrite. Which I'm fine with. But Clark Kent never changed. Hal Jordan never changed.
Yeah, I'm with you. I said this earlier too but I think that's a decent way to appease both sides of this argument. Have a new person take up the 007 mantle.

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Postby willeyeam » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:27 pm

RNC requiring covid passports


nocera
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Postby nocera » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:29 pm

Sounds like they're just requiring a negative test?

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:42 pm

More info on that shooting in Maryland.
Fantahun Girma Woldesenbet was identified by Frederick Police as the Navy corpsman accused of shooting and injuring two people at an industrial park in Frederick, Maryland before he was fatally shot by personnel at nearby Fort Detrick.

The U.S. Navy identified Woldesenbet as a 38-year-old hospital corpsman. Two victims were taken to a Baltimore hospital with critical injuries. The initial shooting was reported at Riverside Tech Park in the northeastern part of the city. The victims were also members of the Navy, authorities said.

Frederick Police Chief Jason Lando said during a press conference Woldesenbet achieved the rank of E-4 and lived in Frederick. He was married, and the FBI interviewed his wife, according to WUSA9. He is from Virginia, according to Stars and Stripes. He was identified as a medical lab technician in 2019 meeting minutes from the Board of Regents Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences 208th Meeting.
https://heavy.com/news/fantahun-woldese ... EL6gRH9zDM

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Postby Faftorial » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:45 pm

Sounds like they're just requiring a negative test?
The vaccinated need to take a test so they won't have to ask for proof that you've had the vaccine.

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Postby Faftorial » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:47 pm

More info on that shooting in Maryland.
Fantahun Girma Woldesenbet was identified by Frederick Police as the Navy corpsman accused of shooting and injuring two people at an industrial park in Frederick, Maryland before he was fatally shot by personnel at nearby Fort Detrick.

The U.S. Navy identified Woldesenbet as a 38-year-old hospital corpsman. Two victims were taken to a Baltimore hospital with critical injuries. The initial shooting was reported at Riverside Tech Park in the northeastern part of the city. The victims were also members of the Navy, authorities said.

Frederick Police Chief Jason Lando said during a press conference Woldesenbet achieved the rank of E-4 and lived in Frederick. He was married, and the FBI interviewed his wife, according to WUSA9. He is from Virginia, according to Stars and Stripes. He was identified as a medical lab technician in 2019 meeting minutes from the Board of Regents Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences 208th Meeting.
https://heavy.com/news/fantahun-woldese ... EL6gRH9zDM
Isn't 38 kind of old to be a corpsman?

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