Politics And Current Events

MWB
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Postby MWB » Wed May 12, 2021 9:07 pm

College tuition costs are a **** joke.

The issue is guaranteed federal loans. The fact that you can get a loan at 6.8% or whatever to spend 300k to be an art history major enables these institutions to jack prices up. It's predatory IMO.

The answer isn't to print money and forgive these kids mistakes.

But, a lot of it isn't their fault.

These kids should be better educated on the debt they're signing up for and what it means. Hey heres an idea, maybe replace the Russian Revolution curriculum with Financial Literacy.

We also have to get past this middle class cultural norm that everyone should go to college for "the experience". **** that noise.
I see good and bad in this post. Definitely, college isn’t for everyone and the mantra should be everyone’s goal is dumb. Trade schools should be in pushed a lot more. Vocational programs in high schools should be funded. And financial literacy classes should be mandatory.

The part I’m not crazy about is the art history and the like majors, which people like to make fun of. The world can’t be made up of just people who produce a good or service that’s “needed.” That’s a shitty world to live in. Just because a specific dollar value can’t be put to a persons contribution to society doesn’t make it less valuable.

King Colby
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Postby King Colby » Wed May 12, 2021 9:27 pm

College tuition costs are a **** joke.

The issue is guaranteed federal loans. The fact that you can get a loan at 6.8% or whatever to spend 300k to be an art history major enables these institutions to jack prices up. It's predatory IMO.

The answer isn't to print money and forgive these kids mistakes.

But, a lot of it isn't their fault.

These kids should be better educated on the debt they're signing up for and what it means. Hey heres an idea, maybe replace the Russian Revolution curriculum with Financial Literacy.

We also have to get past this middle class cultural norm that everyone should go to college for "the experience". **** that noise.
I see good and bad in this post. Definitely, college isn’t for everyone and the mantra should be everyone’s goal is dumb. Trade schools should be in pushed a lot more. Vocational programs in high schools should be funded. And financial literacy classes should be mandatory.

The part I’m not crazy about is the art history and the like majors, which people like to make fun of. The world can’t be made up of just people who produce a good or service that’s “needed.” That’s a shitty world to live in. Just because a specific dollar value can’t be put to a persons contribution to society doesn’t make it less valuable.
It's less about the major itself and more about where you get it. Don't guarantee a loan for someone to major in something at an expensive school that they could have done at a state school for 5x cheaper.

King Colby
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Postby King Colby » Wed May 12, 2021 9:29 pm

Like... does paying for an Art History degree at Duquesne vs Cal U do anything for you besides cost you a **** ton more money

Shyster
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Postby Shyster » Wed May 12, 2021 9:32 pm

CRT is, like many modern philosophies, deliberately opaque and difficult to define. But the main thrust is that it defines and groups people by their racial characteristics and then ranks them in terms in grievances in regard to the ultimate oppressor, which is the white cisgender male. There are some common principles.

- Racism is inherent. CRT teaches that any system created by a certain race is inherently designed to benefit that race, regardless of intent and regardless of whether the creators bent over backwards to ensure fairness and neutrality. Thus, any system created by white people is structurally racist in favor of white people regardless of any intent and regardless of efforts to make the system colorblind. And that means that white people are inherently privileged, racist, and oppressive because they benefit from the system. The legal system is racist. The USA is racist. The whole notion of Western culture is racist.

- Race is everything. CRT holds that race is the sole prism through which history, economics, sociology, science and all aspects of life must be seen. Its promoters seek to explain every facet of how society works in terms of a struggle between races and privilege versus oppression. Everyone is defined by race, sex, and gender and not individual merit or personal characteristics.

- Knowledge is a social construct. Because such things as the modern scientific method were created by white people, and every system is inherently racially biased in favor of the race of its creators, then such things as math, science, logic, and reason are themselves racist as "white constructs." CRT teaches that such things as knowledge and truth are mere social constructs, and there are many different "truths" that may come from other racial and ethnic backgrounds and the "lived experiences" of those persons. Thus, a strict adherent of CRT would argue that a native tribe's beliefs that the sun is a torch being held aloft by their god and the stars are all fireflies is no less of a valid truth than the modern science that every star is a big ball of nuclear fusion and the sun is no different than the stars, which are just much farther away. This aspect of CRT is where you may see stories about how "math is racist" and that to some people 2 + 2 should be able to equal 5.

IMO, CRT is toxic horsecrap.

MWB
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Postby MWB » Wed May 12, 2021 10:00 pm

Like... does paying for an Art History degree at Duquesne vs Cal U do anything for you besides cost you a **** ton more money
Is there a value difference in where you get that degree? Maybe the connections one makes at a higher priced school put you in a better position to get a job after graduation. Or maybe a degree from one school is more highly valued by prospective employers. If all things are equal with the degree, then sure, I get the point. But I think the number of people who look at two equal schools, with one costing significantly more, and not having the money to pay for one, and choose the more expensive one is very small.

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed May 12, 2021 10:03 pm

Sad!


faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Wed May 12, 2021 10:04 pm

Trump DeSantis 2024

faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Wed May 12, 2021 10:19 pm

Just put on Laura Ingrahm on FOX News and Mark Meadows is her guest. Lots of talk of stagflation being on the way.

Now, it's talk of "The Great Reset."

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Wed May 12, 2021 10:43 pm

- Knowledge is a social construct. Because such things as the modern scientific method were created by white people, and every system is inherently racially biased in favor of the race of its creators, then such things as math, science, logic, and reason are themselves racist as "white constructs." CRT teaches that such things as knowledge and truth are mere social constructs, and there are many different "truths" that may come from other racial and ethnic backgrounds and the "lived experiences" of those persons. Thus, a strict adherent of CRT would argue that a native tribe's beliefs that the sun is a torch being held aloft by their god and the stars are all fireflies is no less of a valid truth than the modern science that every star is a big ball of nuclear fusion and the sun is no different than the stars, which are just much farther away. This aspect of CRT is where you may see stories about how "math is racist" and that to some people 2 + 2 should be able to equal 5.

IMO, CRT is toxic horsecrap.
This is the part where I get off the train of trying to find value in CRT. There are elements of the first two points that make sense, but as you said it boils people down to a demographic, packages and labels them which I think is unhealthy.
Then it turns around and says truth is in lived experiences. If truth is that relative than as a white cis male my truth is all I can know and eff you if you can’t understand it because I cannot experience another truth.

I can find perspective in the first two points, and there’s wisdom in respecting people’s past experiences and how it shapes their lens. Yet when presented as gospel, concrete, and without exception it’s contradictory to lump all of a race together and think they’ve experienced the same things.

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Thu May 13, 2021 7:00 am

America's history isn't super different from other western nations. Slavery happened all over - we just kept it going longer. Our brand of violent imperialism doesn't sound worse than Belgium's or England. We've also benefited from borderline slave labor like other nations have. So I'm sympathetic to the position that we're just following the playbook like everyone else - and just do it better, with more abundant natural resources to make us a powerhouse. And I think most issues that people think are signs of racism are actually signs of classism.

But I think there's this thing with the contemporary power dynamic that makes us uniquely terrible. The political party that makes up 46% of the country would prefer that people of color not vote, and design programs to explicitly make that a reality. I think this is a uniquely American disgrace, and shows that we haven't actually passed the same morality test that our peer nations have. Large swaths of people are purposefully disenfranchised by actual major institutions because of their skin color or sexuality. It's bananas that this is something that we have to deal with and yes - disqualifies us from any claim of even being a tier 1 nation, as far as morality goes. We're certainly not Saudi Arabia. But we have work to do.
The thing is, it's not even just Western (white) nations. Africans have been notoriously cruel to each other since time immemorial. Enslaving other tribes and much, much worse. Not to mention the Arab/Persian Empires going back to ancient times. Chinese vs. Japanese... Etc.

Hell, read up on the Comanche and what they did to their fellow indigenous people. White people have done lots of awful things to advance their cause, but that historical cruelty is hardly unique to them. You can't look at everything that has been discovered, invented, and all the advancements that have been made over the last 500+ years, and chalk it all up to it only being because of racism/privilege.

I also agree with Shyster that despite the relative advanced nature of human beings compared to other animals (in theory), racism is probably an inherently natural thing. Any race is naturally going to look out for No. 1 once they have power. Look at what is happening in Zimbabwe and now South Africa. The world is a nasty place.

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Thu May 13, 2021 7:23 am

And as an aside, what is happening in South Africa, to me, is the inevitable end result of CRT, which in itself has strong Marxist influences. You can't dismantle an entire national system without breaking a few eggs, as it were.

Viva la Ben
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Postby Viva la Ben » Thu May 13, 2021 7:37 am

It’s acceptable in today’s society to come up with false premise in order to achieve ones goals.

Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Thu May 13, 2021 7:43 am

Like "race"?

MrKennethTKangaroo
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Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Thu May 13, 2021 9:30 am

Since I am an enterprising marsupial, I read the actual labor report published by the BLS (i.e. the one that has resulted in many panties in a bunch). Couple things I found interesting:

43.8% of unemployed people have been enmployed for more than 27 weeks. that is a pretty interesting stat and worth thinking about. On one hand, it is reasonable to assume that the 43.8% of unemployed people lost a job at the start of this and just decided to ride out the storm until we really hang the mission accomplished barrier on the aircraft carrier. keep in mind that this rate was about 45% at the worst of the great recession of 2009. On the other hand, that means 57% of people have been unemployed for less than 27 weeks. when you think about it, that is a pretty high number considering that most of us would assume that people lost jobs well before December/November.

There's about 16.1 million people collecting unemployment, down from about 20 million in February. The number has been falling pretty steadily since the vaccines have been rolled out. It isn't a drastic decrease, but it does indicate, at least a little bit, that $300 a week isn't convincing EVERY unemployed person to sit around and play fortnite instead of working at Wendys.

MR25
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Postby MR25 » Thu May 13, 2021 9:33 am

Would be interesting if there was a breakdown of those workers' previous job field to see if there's a correlation between that and how long they've been unemployed.

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Thu May 13, 2021 9:39 am

Since I am an enterprising marsupial, I read the actual labor report published by the BLS (i.e. the one that has resulted in many panties in a bunch). Couple things I found interesting:

43.8% of unemployed people have been enmployed for more than 27 weeks. that is a pretty interesting stat and worth thinking about. On one hand, it is reasonable to assume that the 43.8% of unemployed people lost a job at the start of this and just decided to ride out the storm until we really hang the mission accomplished barrier on the aircraft carrier. keep in mind that this rate was about 45% at the worst of the great recession of 2009. On the other hand, that means 57% of people have been unemployed for less than 27 weeks. when you think about it, that is a pretty high number considering that most of us would assume that people lost jobs well before December/November.

There's about 16.1 million people collecting unemployment, down from about 20 million in February. The number has been falling pretty steadily since the vaccines have been rolled out. It isn't a drastic decrease, but it does indicate, at least a little bit, that $300 a week isn't convincing EVERY unemployed person to sit around and play fortnite instead of working at Wendys.
It's a 20% decrease, which is fairly substantial.
Numbers question for the educated: 20% less people are collecting unemployment, but the unemployment % went up. Is that because most states only offer unemployment for a period of time (say 6 months) so those people are now sitting at home without a check but are still part of the pool of eligible workers? So those 4 million aren't sitting at home because of free $$$, but they are still willing to sit at home rather than work.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Thu May 13, 2021 9:42 am

Would be interesting if there was a breakdown of those workers' previous job field to see if there's a correlation between that and how long they've been unemployed.
From what i read, it seemed most of the job losses were related to couriers. I'm sure Amazon/Fedex/UPS are still delivering way more stuff than they were in January 2020, but these job losses seem to indicate that they aren't delivering as much as they were six months ago.

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Thu May 13, 2021 9:48 am

That would make sense. There was high demand early in the pandemic when nobody was going to stores and everybody bought on Amazon. Now as things open up there's less demand for delivery of internet purchases.

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Thu May 13, 2021 9:59 am

Like... does paying for an Art History degree at Duquesne vs Cal U do anything for you besides cost you a **** ton more money
Both will put you in over 100k of debt which is disgusting, especially for a state school.

NTP66
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Postby NTP66 » Thu May 13, 2021 10:03 am

Source of the post Both will put you in over 100k of debt which is disgusting, especially for a state school.
Which is why I have no idea if my 529 plan for my daughter is enough. I'm trying to ensure that she doesn't wind up in that sinking ship.

DigitalGypsy66
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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Thu May 13, 2021 10:25 am

I was taking a look at our graduates for Saturday. We have one Visual Arts major (a painter) who graduating with honors. She's active on campus and is going to graduate school to become an art teacher.

By far our biggest major are the various business concentrations. From data I got last year, this major has the lowest GPA - usually around a 2.4 or so. Most of these are athletes who think they will end up playing professionally (they don't) and will more than likely end up coaching. We have a lot of Phys Education majors who are athletes - K-12 gym teachers in training. Lots of meatheads in this group.

Our teacher education program had waiting lists for years and had to cap the cohort size because of faculty limitations. Even with a teaching shortage K-12, this program has hit hard times over the last few years. We have 3 (!) graduates, down from 30-40 just a few years ago. One of the graduate programs was phased out for lack of interest due to alternative credentialing through the local school districts.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Thu May 13, 2021 10:41 am


Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Thu May 13, 2021 10:55 am

Source of the post Both will put you in over 100k of debt which is disgusting, especially for a state school.
Which is why I have no idea if my 529 plan for my daughter is enough. I'm trying to ensure that she doesn't wind up in that sinking ship.
Having worked in higher Ed recruiting and financial aid I can tell you that a lot of colleges make costs based on what will use the most aide. Then you have bigger name schools that cost way more than aide can cover so that leads to private loans. All that for what? An entry level job that if you’re lucky is going to start at 40k. My hope is this bubble bursts in the next 5 years so that when Pavel Jr and Pavel Jr Jr get to college age their 529 plans will actually help them.

There’s also the dependent vs independent borrower stays that only functions to limit the amount of Pell Grant and gov loans a student can get. And the insanity that is bankruptcy not discharging the loans.

faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Thu May 13, 2021 10:58 am

Source of the post Both will put you in over 100k of debt which is disgusting, especially for a state school.
Which is why I have no idea if my 529 plan for my daughter is enough. I'm trying to ensure that she doesn't wind up in that sinking ship.
Having worked in higher Ed recruiting and financial aid I can tell you that a lot of colleges make costs based on what will use the most aide. Then you have bigger name schools that cost way more than aide can cover so that leads to private loans. All that for what? An entry level job that if you’re lucky is going to start at 40k. My hope is this bubble bursts in the next 5 years so that when Pavel Jr and Pavel Jr Jr get to college age their 529 plans will actually help them.

There’s also the dependent vs independent borrower stays that only functions to limit the amount of Pell Grant and gov loans a student can get. And the insanity that is bankruptcy not discharging the loans.
At what point does someone become independent of their parents when it comes to federal loans and grants?

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Thu May 13, 2021 10:58 am

This is not good.


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