Politics And Current Events

[tifosi77]

The GOP is functionally useless.

[crusherstasiak]

careening towards violence
https://americanindependent.com/gop-ida ... ign=buffer
"invasive species"

[count2infinity]

I get the message, but on Father's Day lol, what a clown.

I was 19 years old when I met my father. It was in Family Court.

Rubio is a dunce.

Now hold on just a second here... maybe he was on to something...

[Morkle]

I don't know if it's the propaganda in this particular thread but I'm agreeing more and more with shmenguin that by and large Republicans are actually detached from reality

That predates Trump (see Benghazi). It's just spread throughout the GOP now.

Can you imagine if the time spent on Benghazi was actually spent on 1/6?

But I guess it only matters when a Clinton or a Dem is involved.

Well, this is where I'd like to see the Dems actually grow a freaking spine.

[Morkle]

The FBI director and other senior officials have consistently downplayed the intelligence value of social media posts by Trump supporters prior to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, suggesting the bureau had no "actionable" warning that the Capitol would be targeted by a mob.

But according to a document entered into court records last week, an FBI agent acknowledged in a February investigative report that angry Trump supporters were talking openly in the days before the riot about bringing guns to the Capitol to start a "revolution."

"A review of open source and social media posts leading up to and during the event indicates that individuals participating on the 'Stop the Steal,' rally were angered about the results of the 2020 presidential election and felt that Joseph Biden had unlawfully been declared 'President-Elect,'" said the report by FBI Special Agent Patricia Norden. "Users in multiple online groups and platforms discussed traveling to the Capitol armed or making plans to start a 'revolution' on that day."

We landed on the moon?!

[Shyster]

We landed on the moon?!

Not according to the flat-Earthers.

[Troy Loney]

When even your hyperbole argument is dumb

[shafnutz05]

Without turning this into a pearl clutching thing, can we agree that this is really stupid?

https://sports.yahoo.com/new-zealand-we ... 41558.html

The same people that love to scream "Trust the Science!" look at us with a straight face and insist that a biological man has no advantage over women in a competition of strength.

But hey... Inclusiveness and "trans women are women", amirite?

[Morkle]

I guess my question lies within the requirement:

Hubbard has been eligible to compete at Olympics since 2015, when the International Olympic Committee (IOC) issued guidelines allowing any transgender athlete to compete as a woman provided their testosterone levels are below 10 nanomoles per liter for at least 12 months before their first competition.

Bone/body structure aside - does having reduced testosterone put her at the level of a typical female? If it does, or if there's study that proves it does, is it that big of a deal?

I truly have no idea.

[Troy Loney]

When every problem is a nail.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

I tip my cap to Duterte for his consistency

[count2infinity]

Without turning this into a pearl clutching thing, can we agree that this is really stupid?

https://sports.yahoo.com/new-zealand-we ... 41558.html

The same people that love to scream "Trust the Science!" look at us with a straight face and insist that a biological man has no advantage over women in a competition of strength.

But hey... Inclusiveness and "trans women are women", amirite?

Your average biological man is stronger than your average biological female... yes.

So we'd expect to look at the data regarding men who transition to being women and just see record after record smashed by those women, right? Laurel Hubbard would be absolutely SMOKING the competition, right? Well... it hasn't really played out that way, and until it does, I see no reason to be clutching some pearls.

[faftorial]

Without turning this into a pearl clutching thing, can we agree that this is really stupid?

https://sports.yahoo.com/new-zealand-we ... 41558.html

The same people that love to scream "Trust the Science!" look at us with a straight face and insist that a biological man has no advantage over women in a competition of strength.

But hey... Inclusiveness and "trans women are women", amirite?

Your average biological man is stronger than your average biological female... yes.

So we'd expect to look at the data regarding men who transition to being women and just see record after record smashed by those women, right? Laurel Hubbard would be absolutely SMOKING the competition, right? Well... it hasn't really played out that way, and until it does, I see no reason to be clutching some pearls.

You need to give Shaf an extra 5 years to catch up with these big social changes in our society.

[Troy Loney]

Without turning this into a pearl clutching thing, can we agree that this is really stupid?

https://sports.yahoo.com/new-zealand-we ... 41558.html

The same people that love to scream "Trust the Science!" look at us with a straight face and insist that a biological man has no advantage over women in a competition of strength.

But hey... Inclusiveness and "trans women are women", amirite?

Thanks for bringing this issue to light. I am very concerned about the potential that hair gross perverts are going to start playing women’s beach volleyball.

I also agree about the trusting the science. So you’re ok with boys playing sports with girls, but not ok with Adam and eve playing together?

[CBear3]

Without turning this into a pearl clutching thing, can we agree that this is really stupid?

https://sports.yahoo.com/new-zealand-we ... 41558.html

The same people that love to scream "Trust the Science!" look at us with a straight face and insist that a biological man has no advantage over women in a competition of strength.

But hey... Inclusiveness and "trans women are women", amirite?

The answer to your question is, no. We can't agree.
Since she's been eligible since 2015, that means her testosterone levels have been below the max for 7 years now. She has been a she for nearing a decade.
This goes back to the South African runner, Caster Semenya, who had high testosterone levels and forced the redefining of what women's track and field was.

[Gaucho]

I see we are all in agreement then.

[shafnutz05]

Thanks for bringing this issue to light. I am very concerned about the potential that hair gross perverts are going to start playing women’s beach volleyball.

I also agree about the trusting the science. So you’re ok with boys playing sports with girls, but not ok with Adam and eve playing together?

Just a reminder that we as humans are capable of thinking something is silly without being "upset" or "angered" by it. I know this is practically sacrilegious these days, but inclusivity and acceptance are not universally "good" things. Trans people should be able to do everything cisgender (ugh) people can do--I know two Coast Guard officers personally that are transgender, and I've known both of them since before their transition, and it has been great to see them be able to serve their country openly.

With that said, drawing the line at athletic competitions against people that are biologically different from them in a very fundamental way seems perfectly reasonable. Sure, this person might not win at the Olympics, but chances are decent that somewhere along the way in the trials she beat out other women that don't have the advantage of living as a male for years and years.

I have no idea what your last paragraph is referring to, I'll admit.

[nocera]

I get the feeling that the majority of people who complain about transgender women in women's sports don't actually care about women's sports.

[mikey]

I don't care about women's sports, I do care about women. Actively promoting their abuse is bad imo...

[nocera]

I don't care about women's sports, I do care about women. Actively promoting their abuse is bad imo...

I agree with this. It's also funny that I can't tell what side you're on from this comment.

[shafnutz05]

The answer to your question is, no. We can't agree.
Since she's been eligible since 2015, that means her testosterone levels have been below the max for 7 years now. She has been a she for nearing a decade.
This goes back to the South African runner, Caster Semenya, who had high testosterone levels and forced the redefining of what women's track and field was.

https://nordiclifting.com/blogs/fitness ... als-in-iwf

A new weightlifting record has been broken by Laurel Hubbard, a transgender weightlifter from New Zealand, after winning twice in this year’s IWF World Weightlifting Championships.

Last Tuesday, in Anaheim, California, Lauren Hubbard competed in 90 kg-plus division snatch category and won silver with a total lifted weight of 606 lbs, next to Robles who lifted a total of 626 lbs and has been a world title holder since 1994.

Hubbard lived for 35 years as a male, and was never able to reach the next level of competition. She was virtually unknown in the weightlifting word Then, suddenly, Hubbard transitions to a female and starts competing in female events.

Suddenly, she is breaking long-standing weightlifting records, winning elite competitions, and at the age of 43, well past what would be considered one's athletic prime, she has qualified for the Olympics. Not only that, she has set the record for the oldest "female" weightlifter to ever compete in the Olympics.

Are you genuinely trying to tell me that this is all coincidence? The fact that she didn't win sht for 35 years, but then after her transition suddenly has wild success and starts smashing records? C'mon...

[shafnutz05]

I get the feeling that the majority of people who complain about transgender women in women's sports don't actually care about women's sports.

Of course I am not going to try and tell you I give two shts about the WNBA...I don't. And you're right...while I do enjoy some women's sports (gymnastics, volleyball, skating, WC soccer, etc.) it's no secret that the caliber pales in comparison to the men's side. It is what it is.

For me, it's more the cognitive dissonance that people will argue until they are blue in the face that transitioned men participating in competitive women's sporting events is normal. I know that it's 2021 and being woke/inclusive is the ticket these days, but at what point do people just pause and say "Hold up...does this really make sense?"

[shafnutz05]

And regarding focusing on the testosterone levels as some sort of end all be all, I like this quote from a male-to-female trans person on the strength advantage they have *regardless* of how long their T levels have been lower.

I'm trans, MtoF, and I am stronger than most women yet haven't touched a weight in 6 years and I'm on enough estrogen to feminize a male Clydesdale. I'm sorry if these people can't understand it, but if you transition, you lose the ability to compete with natal folks. Period, end of story. And yes, idiot, it's all about exposure to testosterone. If you've ever been exposed to normal male levels of T, you can't compete with women. Natal men's T levels are 600-1200 while a "normal" natal female's are 0-60. My levels have been zero for 6 years, and I can't lose the strength, god knows I'd like to, but I can't. Can't get rid of the muscle mass either. I'm a serious progressive, but I have to be real. Transitioning means choices, and giving up the ability to compete in athletics is one of the repercussions.

[nocera]

I get the feeling that the majority of people who complain about transgender women in women's sports don't actually care about women's sports.

Of course I am not going to try and tell you I give two shts about the WNBA...I don't. And you're right...while I do enjoy some women's sports (gymnastics, volleyball, skating, WC soccer, etc.) it's no secret that the caliber pales in comparison to the men's side. It is what it is.

For me, it's more the cognitive dissonance that people will argue until they are blue in the face that transitioned men participating in competitive women's sporting events is normal. I know that it's 2021 and being woke/inclusive is the ticket these days, but at what point do people just pause and say "Hold up...does this really make sense?"

I think a lot of folks have taken up this argument because this is sort of the last remaining argument you can throw out without appearing blatantly bigoted. To be 100% clear: I do not think this is you. I completely understand your comment here. I don't agree with you, but I understand what you're saying. To be honest with you, I don't know what the answer is. I do know that as a cis male non-athlete, I'm probably not the person to make this call. Similar to how I don't think dudes should be regulating women's bodies, I don't think dudes should be regulating women's sports. I'll defer to the experts here: current and past women athletes. What are they saying?

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I think we can all agree that this much more complicated than we all want to make it

there are scenarios where a MTF trans person obliterates their competition and there are other scenarios where they don't. I do share the frustration that this conversation is seemingly off limits because criticizing trans people is social suicide (hm ok, it's not so much criticizing trans people but more criticizing weird policies that are intended to protect them aka allowing MTF trans people to compete
in women's sports).

It's tough. I don't think anyone here hates trans people. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think everyone here wants them to be happy and healthy. But this is a **** tough conversation