Politics And Current Events

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:22 am

It will hopefully be a long number of years before we top Island Capsize Guy in the stupid politician bowl.
I remember having to teach a co-worker that Antarctica wasn’t just a mass of floating ice in the ocean. I had to use a styrofoam cup upside down with a plate on top of it to finally drive home there was land under all the ice.

This came about because they were saying it was going to melt anyway because it would float to warm waters eventually.

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:01 pm

SCOTUS hearing obstruction charges related to 1/6 this morning.
Seems likely the court throws them out because *GOP*.

NTP66
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Postby NTP66 » Tue Apr 16, 2024 2:38 pm

Gotta say, these new nicknames I'm seeing on Twitter are pretty funny. Don Snoreleone, The Nodfather, etc.

nocera
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Postby nocera » Tue Apr 16, 2024 2:46 pm

Those are too clever. Trump creates nicknames that even the dumbest of his dumb supporters can understand. Sleepy Joe, Crooked Hillary, Wacky Jacky, Cryin' Chuck.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Tue Apr 16, 2024 2:48 pm

"Sleepy Don refusing to be woke" is still the chicken dinner imo

Shyster
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Postby Shyster » Tue Apr 16, 2024 6:50 pm

SCOTUS hearing obstruction charges related to 1/6 this morning.
Seems likely the court throws them out because *GOP*.

And I'm sure you can explain why it would be incorrect for the SCOTUS to adopt the appellant's interpretation of 18 U.S.C § 1512 as opposed to the government's interpretation, in light of the canons of statutory construction.

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Tue Apr 16, 2024 6:51 pm

SCOTUS hearing obstruction charges related to 1/6 this morning.
Seems likely the court throws them out because *GOP*.

And I'm sure you can explain why it would be incorrect for the SCOTUS to adopt the appellant's interpretation of 18 U.S.C § 1512 as opposed to the government's interpretation, in light of the canons of statutory construction.
Is this the case they declined to hear that makes it illegal to peacefully gather and protest in 3 states now?

Shyster
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Postby Shyster » Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:24 pm

Is this the case they declined to hear that makes it illegal to peacefully gather and protest in 3 states now?

No. And despite whatever article you read (I'm guessing Vox because that's basically their headline), that's not what that Fifth Circuit case said. It doesn't make it illegal to protest. It says that the organizer of a protest can be held vicariously liable for injuries if the protest turns violent and the organizer has deliberately conducted an illegal protest (in that case, by illegally leading the protest to block a street). And whether that is still good law in light of last year's SCOTUS decision in Counterman v. Colorado, which was decided after Mckesson v. Doe, is an open question that the District Court will have to consider on remand.

Lemon Berry Lobster
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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:05 pm


faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:13 pm

If he doesn't resign the voters can vote him out of office.

There's no excuse in this day and age of cell phones for acting like this.

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:13 pm

Is this the case they declined to hear that makes it illegal to peacefully gather and protest in 3 states now?

No. And despite whatever article you read (I'm guessing Vox because that's basically their headline), that's not what that Fifth Circuit case said. It doesn't make it illegal to protest. It says that the organizer of a protest can be held vicariously liable for injuries if the protest turns violent and the organizer has deliberately conducted an illegal protest (in that case, by illegally leading the protest to block a street). And whether that is still good law in light of last year's SCOTUS decision in Counterman v. Colorado, which was decided after Mckesson v. Doe, is an open question that the District Court will have to consider on remand.
I knew you’d give a good and true legalese answer. Thanks! How do they decide who the organizer is and how is it legal to hold them liable for what people decide to do? It seems ripe for abuse from police and the courts.

Shyster
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Postby Shyster » Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:59 pm


I knew you’d give a good and true legalese answer. Thanks! How do they decide who the organizer is and how is it legal to hold them liable for what people decide to do? It seems ripe for abuse from police and the courts.

The case does not address the burden of proof for whether someone was the organizer. All of the proceedings so far arose out of a dismissal at the pleadings stage. At this point, the complaint pleaded that DeRay Mckesson organized and directed the protest, and those averments must be accepted as true.

The basis of liability is a finding that the leader "authorized, directed, or ratified specific tortious activity would justify holding him responsible
for the consequences of that activity." The complaint avers that Mckesson lead the protest out into a public street in order to block that public street, which is illegal. The court said that because Mckesson organized and directed the protest in an "unsafe manner" by leading it out into the street such that it was likely that a confrontation with the police would result because blocking the street is illegal, it was foreseeable that he would be liable when the confrontation caused injuries to one of those police officers.

I agree that this holding could potentially lead to abuse by the police and the courts, assuming it holds up. I didn't say that I personally agreed with it.

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:01 pm

Again, I appreciate the legal breakdown. Thanks!

JC2
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Postby JC2 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 12:11 am

Image

We do appreciate it, Shyster!

Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:49 am


dodint
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Postby dodint » Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:50 am

I really don't care, do u?

nocera
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Postby nocera » Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:00 am

Oversized suits and long ties?

Beveridge
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Postby Beveridge » Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:01 am

It is true they usually dress you in a suit or dress in the casket so appropriate comment with Covid.

faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:05 am

Oversized suits and long ties?
To hide what a bloated mess he is.

Dickie Dunn
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Postby Dickie Dunn » Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:29 am

Boy what an annoying little penis that person is.

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:58 am

SCOTUS hearing obstruction charges related to 1/6 this morning.
Seems likely the court throws them out because *GOP*.

And I'm sure you can explain why it would be incorrect for the SCOTUS to adopt the appellant's interpretation of 18 U.S.C § 1512 as opposed to the government's interpretation, in light of the canons of statutory construction.
No, I was reading through the play by play of oral arguments. Obviously, the providers of said pbp offer their own slant, but it appeared the conservative justices were throwing out some pretty hyperbolic situations to try to counter the government's position, and seemed fixated on the 20 year maximum (would heckling a SCOTUS hearing be worth 20 years in prison). Meanwhile, the appellant was doing some pretty severe gumbying to differentiate the activities of 1/6 from the intent disrupt the availability of evidence versus altering/destroying the evidence re:
I don't have a doctorate in legalese, but in my mind c2 sure seems to differentiate itself from c1 by not mentioning evidence at all based on my grasp of the English language. But I admit that legalese doesn't follow the rules we regular folks in literature or technical writing do.

nocera
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Postby nocera » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:12 pm



Those damn liberals strike again.

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:41 pm



Those damn liberals strike again.
We have to ban these books with sex, violence, and woke thoughts in them!

No! Not like that!

Shyster
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Postby Shyster » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:10 pm

No, I was reading through the play by play of oral arguments. Obviously, the providers of said pbp offer their own slant, but it appeared the conservative justices were throwing out some pretty hyperbolic situations to try to counter the government's position, and seemed fixated on the 20 year maximum (would heckling a SCOTUS hearing be worth 20 years in prison). Meanwhile, the appellant was doing some pretty severe gumbying to differentiate the activities of 1/6 from the intent disrupt the availability of evidence versus altering/destroying the evidence re:

I don't have a doctorate in legalese, but in my mind c2 sure seems to differentiate itself from c1 by not mentioning evidence at all based on my grasp of the English language. But I admit that legalese doesn't follow the rules we regular folks in literature or technical writing do.

True, (c)(2) doesn't mention evidence, but the same time it's also not an independent clause, but rather a subsidiary follow-on to (c)(1). I don't think there would be any question that the fedgov's interpretaion would be correct if (c)(2) stood alone. But when it seems to be a catch-all to the provisions of (c)(1), the doctrine of ejusdem generis would appear to limit its scope. Ejusdem generis ("of the same kind") is a canon of interpretation that says that where general words or phrases follow two or more specific words or phrases, the general words must be construed as appling only to things of the same kind or class as those expressly mentioned. For example, a statute that refers to "cats, dogs, chickens, horses, cattle, and other animals" would probably include pigs but not zebras because all of the listed animals are domesticated animals, and pigs are domesticated animals, but zebras are not.

Several other canons would be at play. As mentioned at oral argument, the breadth of the fedgov's interpretaion of (c)(2) would appear to swallow and render superflous several other portions of the statute, and under the surplusage canon, a statute should not be interpreted in a way that renders part of the text either duplicative or superfluous in respect to other parts. Further, we are dealing with statute that creates criminal liability, and under the rule of lenity, ambiguity in a statute defining a crimine or imposing a penalty should be resolved in favor of defendants and not the government.

On the oral argument, hyperbolic situations are a part of oral argument and always have been, especially for law-setting (as opposed to error correcting) appellate courts like the SCOTUS. Those sorts of, "Counsel, if we adopt your view, why won't that cause the Earth crash into the sun and everyone die?" hypotheticals are totally expected.

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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:29 pm



More mumbling lies from this clown.

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