The Official 2017 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Season Thread

Postby **DigitalGypsy66** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:43 am

Cole and possibly Nova may set Pirates records for HRs allowed...which is weird.

Also Williams got his 110th strikeout of the season last night, making him the fourth Pirates pitcher this season with 110+ K's for the first time since 1984. That's also weird.

Postby **Morkle** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:44 am

Who's even available to help the offense? How do the Pirates fix that?

It seems Bell and maybe Luplow are the bright spots right now. I don't see the Pirates going out and grabbing someone like Jay Bruce. I don't know. I think you have one or the other with the Pirates - and they seem more capable of fixing the pitching staff - I do think this next year may be Searage's last year if they don't improve.

Postby **Troy Loney** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:53 am

Who's even available to help the offense? How do the Pirates fix that?

It seems Bell and maybe Luplow are the bright spots right now. I don't see the Pirates going out and grabbing someone like Jay Bruce. I don't know. I think you have one or the other with the Pirates - and they seem more capable of fixing the pitching staff - I do think this next year may be Searage's last year if they don't improve.

No clue who's available in trade, but there are some FA's available for sure. There's no way the Royals can retain Cain, Moustakas and Hosmer. JD Martinez, Justin Upton and Yu Darvish might be viewed as the top guys available, so maybe one of the second tier guys can be targeted right away and signed.

They just need another bat, if that means getting a 1B and moving Bell to the OF that's doable. They just simply can't enter 2018 with McCutchen, Polanco, Marte, Harrison, Freese, Bell and Mercer penciled in as the primary lineup and expect things to be different.

Postby **NailedPenguin** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:53 am

Didn't he just get extended? (Searage)

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:53 am

https://twitter.com/DKPghSports/status/ ... 0638352384

When the Pirates announced the four-year extensions, the only accomplishment listed in the press release was being named Baseball America's Organization of the Year in 2015.

Lol.

Postby **Morkle** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:59 am

Didn't he just get extended? (Searage)

I am under the belief that MLB coach contracts are always one year deals irregardless of how many years it is. If it continues to go drastically wrong - the Pirates can't afford to continue to struggle there.

Postby **Morkle** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:00 am

Who's even available to help the offense? How do the Pirates fix that?

It seems Bell and maybe Luplow are the bright spots right now. I don't see the Pirates going out and grabbing someone like Jay Bruce. I don't know. I think you have one or the other with the Pirates - and they seem more capable of fixing the pitching staff - I do think this next year may be Searage's last year if they don't improve.
No clue who's available in trade, but there are some FA's available for sure. There's no way the Royals can retain Cain, Moustakas and Hosmer. JD Martinez, Justin Upton and Yu Darvish might be viewed as the top guys available, so maybe one of the second tier guys can be targeted right away and signed.

They just need another bat, if that means getting a 1B and moving Bell to the OF that's doable. They just simply can't enter 2018 with McCutchen, Polanco, Marte, Harrison, Freese, Bell and Mercer penciled in as the primary lineup and expect things to be different.

Do you honestly believe the Pirates would spend enough money to sign any of those guys? I logistically don't see it, if they're going to try and trade Harrison because of SeanRod's contract as what's been believed.

I guess the key is Kang too, will he or won't he be back, and if he's back - will he be of any value?

Postby **Troy Loney** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:12 am

Do you honestly believe the Pirates would spend enough money to sign any of those guys? I logistically don't see it, if they're going to try and trade Harrison because of SeanRod's contract as what's been believed.

I guess the key is Kang too, will he or won't he be back, and if he's back - will he be of any value?

If Kang is back he has value..

Harrison was coming off of two replacement level years, that desire to move him to sign SeanRod looks bad as a financial move, but kind of makes sense in a 25-man roster decision. At the time they would have also had Kang, so there wouldn't have been room for SeanRod with them already having Freese and Frazier slotted for backup IF bench roles.

I'm not sure what I believe, this organization has definitely been cheap, they have abstained from the top FA market since forever, but there is a disconnect between their estimated revenue and their payroll. I think they've been able to boost their payroll in the past, but the marginal value of a FA has never been clear (only with the starting rotation, but it's very risky to commit years to starting pitchers and they've had promising prospects). I don't think it's ever been as clear as it is now that the marginal value of a starting 3B would be very close to the marginal cost of the player.

But as I was saying earlier, they can either blow it up or make a splash move. I would support either of those decision. But if they go status quo, I will certainly have no leg to stand on defending their decisions. I will hibernate back to my "show me phase", basically meaning that I stop giving a **** until the team shows something.

Postby **MrKennethTKangaroo** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:13 am

by signing an OF, that means they have waived the white flag on either polanco or meadows and you damn well better believe GMNH won't surrender until it is painfully obvious that those two stink. jose bautistia is to blame for that GMNH trait

ironically, if you match bautista's numbers up to sniders and polancos through 2000 plate appearances, they are also eerily identical.

Postby **columbia** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:20 am

That Snider/Polanco factoid is dismaying.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:27 am

I don't get what you're saying about SRod. He put up 1.8 WAR in 2016, the same number Harrison put up in bad 2015 and 2016 seasons. In 2015 SRod put had a WAR of -0.1. Harrison might be "overpaid" on the basis of an outlier season, but that doesn't make SRod a better player and it certainly doesn't make him an everyday player. Trading Harrison to sign SRod looks cheap because it is cheap and it doesn't make sense in a 25 man roster decision because it hurts your depth and weakens your bench. The Pirates started this season with Gosselin and Hanson on the bench. Kang not being a shithead takes one of those spots and not being a cheap ass franchise and signing SRod for a utility role takes the other spot.

Postby **Troy Loney** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:39 am

I don't get what you're saying about SRod. He put up 1.8 WAR in 2016, the same number Harrison put up in bad 2015 and 2016 seasons. In 2015 SRod put had a WAR of -0.1. Harrison might be "overpaid" on the basis of an outlier season, but that doesn't make SRod a better player and it certainly doesn't make him an everyday player. Trading Harrison to sign SRod looks cheap because it is cheap and it doesn't make sense in a 25 man roster decision because it hurts your depth and weakens your bench. The Pirates started this season with Gosselin and Hanson on the bench. Kang not being a shithead takes one of those spots and not being a cheap ass franchise and signing SRod for a utility role takes the other spot.

I think comparing WAR is misleading because SeanRod had only like 350 at bats in 2016. They were dead set on giving Hanson one of those bench spots to start the year and Gosselin was the guy brought in after Kang's suspension. So, if you accept the fact that Hanson was slotted for the 25th spot, there was no room for both Harrison and SeanRod.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:06 am

Slotting Hanson for anything was stupid and is the action of a team making zero attempt to put their 25 best players on their roster. How they used Hanson after the fact showed absolutely zero regard for his former prospect status or possible future ability, so why the hell would they be so hell bent guaranteeing him a roster spot. Trading Harrison to sign SRod and keep Hanson on the 25 man roster is more insane than the idea of just trading Harrison to hand the job to SRod.

Postby **Freddy Rumsen** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:27 pm

https://twitter.com/stephenjnesbitt/sta ... 5628438528

Postby **NailedPenguin** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:29 pm

So Glasnow looks great..

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:01 pm

Lol Glasnow got credited with a hold.

Postby **beerman** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:58 am

That win did some damage, back down to the 9th pick.

Top 10 seems secure, 2.5 games clear. They're also 2.5 out of 6th.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:16 am

That's disappointing. I thought Glasnow's performance had easily secured the L. **** you Frazier.

Postby **MrKennethTKangaroo** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:24 am

For some reason, this gentleman genuinely believed **** would be different with Glasnow this time around. To quote Robert DiVecenzo, what a stupid I am.

Postby **columbia** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:27 am

There's that thing about overvaluing prospects. He's the cover star of the next issue.

Postby **willeyeam** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:31 am

Did the pirates trade Harrison? Did I miss something?

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:43 am

- Ke'Bryan Hayes (3B) and Edwin Espinal (1B) won minor league gold gloves at their respective positions. The awards cover all of minor league baseball.

- Bucs Dugout has been putting out good minor league season wrap ups for each level of the Pirates organization. Good look at who will be the next overhyped prospect or who really sucks (Will Craig).

Postby **Blue Canary** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:48 pm

IDC, I like DK's Buccos columns and find them to be cathartic.

Does anyone really trust this FO to attempt to rebuild a contender after blowing it up?
I'd trust them to build it back up, they've proven once they can do it. It's once their within striking distance that they've shown they're either not capable of making a few last moves to polish the roster off or unwilling to spend a few extra million to make it happen. Probably some combination of the two.

They're good at scrambling to try and collect a bunch of assets, that's a good way to turn crap into something on the fringe of competitiveness. However, once they actually have a good roster that's a poor way to try and round it out.

Thanks, Beerman.

Assuming, then, that the Bucs can rebuild again, I guess I just don't trust them to maintain it.

Postby **columbia** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:50 pm

It's puzzling that it has taken the 2017 season for some to properly grok the Pirates. The needed information has been there all along.

Postby **MrKennethTKangaroo** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:22 pm

If you ninnies haven't read Bill Brink's article in today's PG, you should. It is relatively short, but it is long on some good details that we have touched on in this last few pages re: payroll and ROI. Probably the most insightful article written all year. This gentleman would link it, but for whatever reason, it is not on the PG website. It is in the print edition, if any of you uncultured fools actually get a paper copy of the PG.

Also, jose osuna's plate appearances per month:

April 28
May 64
June 34
July 46
August 37
September 11

Good to see the pirates getting the young guys some playing time.