Greatest sports records

[count2infinity]

Okay then. So Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game was just luck of when he got all his points then right?

what? no. I don't understand. Why does it have to be one or the other? Talent + Luck = extraordinary things. That's what a lot of records in sports are.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

there's a lot of luck in every record. Jerry Rice played with two HoF QBs.

you guys sound dismissive about the record. when a baseball hitter puts a ball in play it's not like there's a random number generator that decides where the ball is. Being able to hit is a skill, being able to hit well is a strong skill.

good hitters can locate their hits similarly to how a good golfer can locate their shots

[shmenguin]

Okay then. So Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game was just luck of when he got all his points then right?

there's a significant difference between baseball and every other sport in this regard.

and like c2i said, it's not "just" luck, but luck plays enough of a factor for me to not give it the respect you'd like.

also, the NBA changed its rules because of how dominant wilt was. lightning definitely struck on the 100 point night, but his unique talents had more to do with that than dimaggio's did with his streak.

[shmenguin]

good hitters can locate their hits similarly to how a good golfer can locate their shots

not a good analogy. golfers are precise. they control where the ball goes. a hitter in baseball doesn't have anywhere near the influence on their outcomes as you're describing.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

good hitters can locate their hits similarly to how a good golfer can locate their shots

not a good analogy. golfers are precise. they control where the ball goes. a hitter in baseball doesn't have anywhere near the influence on their outcomes as you're describing.

eh. I bet pro baseball players would disagree.

I mean, of course your hit will be limited by the pitch you get. Like if a pitcher throws a slider on the outside corner you have a very small chance of pulling it and getting a base hit out of it. But you can still push it down the line or the gap in right field or line it back over the pitcher's head.

[shmenguin]

good hitters can locate their hits similarly to how a good golfer can locate their shots

not a good analogy. golfers are precise. they control where the ball goes. a hitter in baseball doesn't have anywhere near the influence on their outcomes as you're describing.

eh. I bet pro baseball players would disagree.

sure, but their batting averages don't.

[willeyeam]

There's a reason they named the "5.5 hole" after Tony Gwynn. There's a point where luck isn't really much of a factor.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

good hitters can locate their hits similarly to how a good golfer can locate their shots

not a good analogy. golfers are precise. they control where the ball goes. a hitter in baseball doesn't have anywhere near the influence on their outcomes as you're describing.

eh. I bet pro baseball players would disagree.

sure, but their batting averages don't.

so is Ovechkin's goal scoring abilities as much luck? or Steph Curry's shooting?

I agree that there's luck but you guys seem to think that it's more luck than skill. At least, that's what it sounds like.

[willeyeam]

And I mean, if it's timing of his hits, I assume his average the rest of the year must have stunk right?

[willeyeam]

Okay then. So Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game was just luck of when he got all his points then right?

there's a significant difference between baseball and every other sport in this regard.

and like c2i said, it's not "just" luck, but luck plays enough of a factor for me to not give it the respect you'd like.

also, the NBA changed its rules because of how dominant wilt was. lightning definitely struck on the 100 point night, but his unique talents had more to do with that than dimaggio's did with his streak.

So his talents had more to do with a performance on one night than a 2 month stretch of FIFTY SIX games? I can't.. This has to be april fools.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

[shmenguin]

so is Ovechkin's goal scoring abilities as much luck? or Steph Curry's shooting?

i missed the part where these 2 made people's lists in this thread.

dimaggio was great. he was hitting .408 during the streak. also great. he'll go down as one of the best hitters ever, probably, right? he can have all those accolades. but the luck involved in this particular streak makes it less impressive than wilt, gretzky or other acts of sheer dominance.

[shmenguin]

I can't..

true story

[count2infinity]

I think you all are taking this whole "luck" thing far, far too literally. There obviously has to be a skill set to have these records. You can't put (and no one did put) all of the record strictly on luck. But to deny that luck has anything to do with any record ever, it's all skill is naive. It's a combination.

[willeyeam]

I think you all are taking this whole "luck" thing far, far too literally. There obviously has to be a skill set to have these records. You can't put (and no one did put) all of the record strictly on luck. But to deny that luck has anything to do with any record ever, it's all skill is naive. It's a combination.

There is some luck in all of these, I agree

[shafnutz05]

Yeah, for crying out loud Joe is one of the best of all time. But there HAS to be some amount of luck involved to manage that streak.

Acknowledging that doesn't besmirch his talent or the record in any way. But like I pointed out before.... Defensive plays, bloops that drop in, beating out infield hits, etc. He was human, not a cyborg.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

but ulf and I both concede that there's luck in every record

I just don't see the point of singling out this one specifically

[count2infinity]

but ulf and I both concede that there's luck in every record

I just don't see the point of singling out this one specifically

Because he thinks that there is more luck involved in that streak than in the other records, that's it... It's okay to disagree.

[shmenguin]

but ulf and I both concede that there's luck in every record

I just don't see the point of singling out this one specifically

oh that's ulf? the tone of this discussion makes sense now. ulf and i can't talk about such things.

this one is singled out because luck plays a significant factor in it. it's not significant in the others...at least not nearly to the extent of the streak.

[meow]

Yeah, for crying out loud Joe is one of the best of all time. But there HAS to be some amount of luck involved to manage that streak.

This pretty much nails it for me. The fact that he isn't the best of all time, but holds this record tells me there is definitely some luck involved. That doesn't diminish the greatness of the record.

[willeyeam]

but ulf and I both concede that there's luck in every record

I just don't see the point of singling out this one specifically

oh that's ulf? the tone of this discussion makes sense now. ulf and i can't talk about such things.

this one is singled out because luck plays a significant factor in it. it's not significant in the others...at least not nearly to the extent of the streak.

Haha what? I wasn't aware of having any feuds with anyone.

[tifosi77]

There is an "iron four" that are absolutely untouchable in every way in hockey history. Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr. The fifth place player is a full tier (and then some, maybe) down from there...you're a knowledgeable and conversational gentleman, so I say this with all due respect, but there's no case that could reasonably be made for Gretzky to be 5th...

I'm just saying that I think a case could be made for, say, Terry Sawchuck ahead of Gretzky. Wouldn't necessarily agree with it, but I can see the claim.

FWIW, the only two players I'll entertain argument for 'best ever' are Lemieux and Orr.

[tifosi77]

I think its amazing that Wayne Gretzky holds the NHL record for goals in a season and if you erased every single NHL goal he scored he would still own the record for most points in a career. That is mind boggling.

The year he scored 212 points, he would have won the Ross Trophy on assists alone.

[mikey]

There is an "iron four" that are absolutely untouchable in every way in hockey history. Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr. The fifth place player is a full tier (and then some, maybe) down from there...you're a knowledgeable and conversational gentleman, so I say this with all due respect, but there's no case that could reasonably be made for Gretzky to be 5th...

I'm just saying that I think a case could be made for, say, Terry Sawchuck ahead of Gretzky. Wouldn't necessarily agree with it, but I can see the claim.

FWIW, the only two players I'll entertain argument for 'best ever' are Lemieux and Orr.

Sawchuk's five-year peak (and, really, little else) doesn't put him near the goalie penthouse (easily outside of the top-3), much less all hockey players, tif. Sawchuk wore down quickly, in large part, to fervent alcoholism...his five-year peak is blindingly bright, but if one rates peak/prime that highly, it would introduce a series of other players into the fold...including Dominik Hasek, among others...

[tifosi77]

Sawchuck's win record stood for 30 years, and nearly a quarter of those wins were shutouts. Those are incredible numbers.

THN, for what it's worth, also has Sawchuck ranked as the best goalie in NHL history, which I found interesting.