COVID-19

[AuthorTony]

Source of the post I was the only one there wearing a mask.

Believe me, I felt like it.

[PFiDC]

If 4 households have thanksgiving together (us, my father in law, my sister in law and her husband, my other sister in law and her family) what business is that of anyone? None of the aforementioned have engaged in any risky behavior or plan to after.

I'm not mocking you, but saying things like, "None of the aforementioned have engaged in any risky behavior" is downright silly. You don't have to partake in risky behavior to contract Covid and you can be asymptomatic for days (or completely). So let's picture a scenario where your SIL contracted COVID while getting groceries. She's asymptomatic during Thanksgiving dinner and gives it to half of you. But none of you realize for 3 or 4 days after that she was sick. In that time the kids went back to school, the adults went back to work, etc. They pass it on to people they associate with who give it to others, etc. And it keeps spreading and spreading, just like that wedding in Maine where one infected person led to 177 cases (that they know of).

Have your dinner. Don't live in fear. Yada yada yada. But don't act like what you're doing couldn't have consequences.

obhave listed her family's Thanksgiving protocol and I think it's worth mentioning. There's a difference between **** it everyone come over and everybody has a quarantine protocol they wi.follow on their own. Maybe Colby's family has that.

[King Colby]

If 4 households have thanksgiving together (us, my father in law, my sister in law and her husband, my other sister in law and her family) what business is that of anyone? None of the aforementioned have engaged in any risky behavior or plan to after.

I'm not mocking you, but saying things like, "None of the aforementioned have engaged in any risky behavior" is downright silly. You don't have to partake in risky behavior to contract Covid and you can be asymptomatic for days (or completely). So let's picture a scenario where your SIL contracted COVID while getting groceries. She's asymptomatic during Thanksgiving dinner and gives it to half of you. But none of you realize for 3 or 4 days after that she was sick. In that time the kids went back to school, the adults went back to work, etc. They pass it on to people they associate with who give it to others, etc. And it keeps spreading and spreading, just like that wedding in Maine where one infected person led to 177 cases (that they know of).

Have your dinner. Don't live in fear. Yada yada yada. But don't act like what you're doing couldn't have consequences.

Thats fine, but there is a lot of ground to cover between 55 people coming from hundreds of miles away to congregate and what I'm about to do. I dont feel any moral obligation whatsoever to avoid engaging in low (not zero) risk activities such as having 5 adults and 4 children who dont live here over for Thanksgiving dinner.

Does that make me selfish. Sure, maybe it does.

Does that give the government the right to prohibit it? **** no.

[PFiDC]

How small are these households? Mine is only 2.5 large so I guess that makes sense.

[AuthorTony]

I'm not going to argue with anyone about it. I suspect the majority of Americans will do whatever they want. If you think the reward outweighs the risks, fine. You do you. But there are some risks and pretending there aren't is equally unfair to those of us who are foregoing get togethers with friends and family out of (perhaps an overabundance of) caution for ourselves and concern for others in our communities.

[grunthy]

1/3 of the excess deaths this year are because of mental health and other issues from the reaction to covid.

You have a link for that?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2771758

[King Colby]

Also, never once said the only way to get covid is by partaking in risky behavior. There's a risk continuum here and we're on the very low end of it. Low enough that I welcome that risk over dealing with the emotional stress of missing a very important family event, even once.

If we weren't all located within about a 20 mile radius I might feel differently.

[NAN]

Smart people can make smart decisions about who they choose to have in their house. Don’t know that this is such a black and white issue.

This. We are getting together with family for the holidays. We've all been pretty careful overall. Does it mean we are perfectly safe? No. But we are trying to create a balance between living life and enjoying time with family while also being careful during a pandemic. I don't think it's a black/white issue either.

But to each their own.

[PFiDC]

And I agree that prohibiting is not the American way to do it.

My son will be with me for Thanksgiving but only if his Covid test from today comes back negative and he doesn't show any symptoms before Thanksgiving (his potential exposure was a week ago). My ex is spending it alone. My brothers are all staying home. My fiance's family is staying home.

Yeah, mental health is an issue, (that only seemed to start mattering to some during Covid) but there are other ways to engage. You can't convince me that not having Thanksgiving dinner with the fam will lead to more deaths than it would were we all to just have our normal holidays.

[PFiDC]

1/3 of the excess deaths this year are because of mental health and other issues from the reaction to covid.

You have a link for that?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2771758

This does not say that mental health issues caused 1/3 excess deaths. Most of them are from heart attacks and other ailments. This discussion was regarding mental health.

[PFiDC]

Also, never once said the only way to get covid is by partaking in risky behavior. There's a risk continuum here and we're on the very low end of it. Low enough that I welcome that risk over dealing with the emotional stress of missing a very important family event, even once.

If we weren't all located within about a 20 mile radius I might feel differently.

To be fair, 4 households of people sound like a lot more than 9 extra people from our community.

[willeyeam]

it's nice that we care about mental health again

[meow]

But we don’t.

[PFiDC]

My son hasn't seen his cousins in over a year. I have only seen my brothers and their families twice in the last year and it was all outside. It **** sucks. My mental health isn't the greatest because of it. But I'm sure as **** not gonna invite them all in for Thanksgiving or Christmas. Not just for me but for my community and theirs.

[MWB]

Smart people can make smart decisions about who they choose to have in their house. Don’t know that this is such a black and white issue.

This. We are getting together with family for the holidays. We've all been pretty careful overall. Does it mean we are perfectly safe? No. But we are trying to create a balance between living life and enjoying time with family while also being careful during a pandemic. I don't think it's a black/white issue either.

But to each their own.

My wife’s parents are supposed to be visiting us this week. However, she came down with a cough, so got tested Saturday. Hoping to get results today. I got tested today, just as a precaution in case she is positive. If there’s a positive test, we won’t see them. We may go see my parents in Florida for thanksgiving, but that is very much up in the air now. In each instance, we’re looking at adding a group of two to our core group.

[grunthy]

1/3 of the excess deaths this year are because of mental health and other issues from the reaction to covid.

You have a link for that?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2771758

This does not say that mental health issues caused 1/3 excess deaths. Most of them are from heart attacks and other ailments. This discussion was regarding mental health.

Mental health also plays within that study.

[count2infinity]

1/3 of the excess deaths this year are because of mental health and other issues from the reaction to covid.

You have a link for that?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2771758

While 1/3 of the excess deaths are not officially documented as COVID-19 deaths, the studies do not say 1/3 of excess deaths are due to "mental health and other issues from the reaction to covid". The one paper cited by that article discusses how heart disease as well as alzheimer disease/dementia rose during this period as well.

To quote that paper:

Excess deaths attributed to causes other than COVID-19 could reflect deaths from unrecognized or undocumented infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus or deaths among uninfected patients resulting from disruptions produced by the pandemic. Study limitations include the reliance on provisional data, inaccuracies in death certificates, and assumptions applied to the model..

So this idea that mental health and reactions (I'm assuming you're talking about government action?) is responsible for 1/3 of the excess deaths is not accurate.

[CBear3]

Simon and colleagues4 suggest that it is critical to consider that for every death, an estimated 9 family members are affected, such as with prolonged grief or symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder. In other words, approximately 3.5 million people could develop major mental health needs. This does not account for the thousands of health care workers in hospitals and nursing homes who have been witness to the unimaginable morbidity and mortality associated with COVID-19.

There is this nice little bit about the mental health effects of people dying from COVID and caring for those with it.

[nocera]

Source of the post In each instance, we’re looking at adding a group of two to our core group.

Can you explain this? Are you talking about having groups in your "bubble?" If so, how do you ensure that each person is behaving safely? I assume there are at least a few that don't work from home so they're at some sort of work environment every day, right? How does that work?

I ask because this is something that my fiance and I want to do as well. We miss being social but want to make sure we're doing it safely.

[count2infinity]

Yeah... I'm well aware that a pandemic is going to have huge, lasting effects on people. There's going to be a lot of mental anguish over dying and infected loved ones. But the idea that lockdowns/gathering restrictions are responsible for 1/3 of the excess deaths is just not accurate. I don't know for sure if you're trying to paint it that way or not, grunty, but that's certainly the way it seems.

[grunthy]

1/3 of the excess deaths this year are because of mental health and other issues from the reaction to covid.

You have a link for that?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2771758

While 1/3 of the excess deaths are not officially documented as COVID-19 deaths, the studies do not say 1/3 of excess deaths are due to "mental health and other issues from the reaction to covid". The one paper cited by that article discusses how heart disease as well as alzheimer disease/dementia rose during this period as well.

To quote that paper:

Excess deaths attributed to causes other than COVID-19 could reflect deaths from unrecognized or undocumented infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus or deaths among uninfected patients resulting from disruptions produced by the pandemic. Study limitations include the reliance on provisional data, inaccuracies in death certificates, and assumptions applied to the model..

So this idea that mental health and reactions (I'm assuming you're talking about government action?) is responsible for 1/3 of the excess deaths is not accurate.

I never said mental health was all the excess deaths. Other issues in response cover canceled procedures, disruptions, Alzheimer’s, and such.

Also, people with Alzheimer’s and dementia significantly decline mentally when being isolated. Faster than they normally would.

[PFiDC]

Source of the post In each instance, we’re looking at adding a group of two to our core group.

Can you explain this? Are you talking about having groups in your "bubble?" If so, how do you ensure that each person is behaving safely? I assume there are at least a few that don't work from home so they're at some sort of work environment every day, right? How does that work?

I ask because this is something that my fiance and I want to do as well. We miss being social but want to make sure we're doing it safely.

We've done this since June with my son's BFFs family. I trust them and they trust us. This way our kids can still play together and we can hang out with other adults. We planned together to keep the bubbles closed to others.

[count2infinity]

Right, but none of that has to do with kids that can't go play football or households that can't get together at Christmas time. These are deaths that likely would have occurred during the pandemic with or with out lockdowns.

[PFiDC]

Simon and colleagues4 suggest that it is critical to consider that for every death, an estimated 9 family members are affected, such as with prolonged grief or symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder. In other words, approximately 3.5 million people could develop major mental health needs. This does not account for the thousands of health care workers in hospitals and nursing homes who have been witness to the unimaginable morbidity and mortality associated with COVID-19.

There is this nice little bit about the mental health effects of people dying from COVID and caring for those with it.

If we're going to use mental health as the excuse to have college football and Thanksgiving dinner we should consider this as well ...

[grunthy]

Right, but none of that has to do with kids that can't go play football or households that can't get together at Christmas time. These are deaths that likely would have occurred during the pandemic with or with out lockdowns.

So are we downplaying those deaths because they might have just happened sometime next year, but happened this year instead?