Rutherford actively pursuing first-rounder.

[Bioshock]

Remember that draft Saad was in. Was absolutely bewildering when the Pens didn't take him. Was nearly as confused when the Pens passed on Filip Forsberg in the following year.

Pens scouting department is fine. Just need someone to listen to it.

[Jim]

There were plenty of projections a year abead of his draft that had him in the top 5. Him dropping a ton doesnt change that.

Actually it does, "a ton" to use your words.

[Jim]

Remember that draft Saad was in. Was absolutely bewildering when the Pens didn't take him. Was nearly as confused when the Pens passed on Filip Forsberg in the following year.

Pens scouting department is fine. Just need someone to listen to it.

What about the 19 picks after the Pens didn't pick Saad?

[mikey]

I guess the part where I'm confused is here: Why does it matter where a player is ranked by some other scouting service? And then the same question but with the 12-24 months prior to his draft year qualifier included...but maybe with an exclamation point as well...

Angelo Esposito was supposed to be a #1 pick 12-18 months before his draft year, we got him at 20 or whatever...sometimes these things happen, it's the nature of the draft...

[Craig]

Because youre trying to attribute a writers words to what the pens' scouting staff did. It doesnt make sense. The writer is technically right but regardless, applying what he said to what the Penguins thought/did makes no sense.

[Avyran]

I guess the part where I'm confused is here: Why does it matter where a player is ranked by some other scouting service? And then the same question but with the 12-24 months prior to his draft year qualifier included...but maybe with an exclamation point as well...

Angelo Esposito was supposed to be a #1 pick 12-18 months before his draft year, we got him at 20 or whatever...sometimes these things happen, it's the nature of the draft...

*Shrug* It's just a writer using various sources to bring together a picture & a point - Shero went against the staff & conventional wisdom to pick another defenseman. Saad was a top-five pick according to the only services that most fans have at their disposal, then he dropped heavily (which DK then notes was due to his injury & other things). He then noted that the Pens' staff likely would've had more information than the national services anyway, making the Saad pick even easier. Then he pointed out Shero's stubbornness & idealism, which is something that got him ultimately fired; remember, the owners weren't exactly happy with his drafting record. Maybe this is a larger deal than previously known.

I don't see what the problem is, mikey. What else is he supposed to say when trying to show how highly touted Saad was? "One scouting service that some people use at some point said he was supposed to be pretty good"? Nah, he's just noting that Saad was widely regarded, and then in the next sentence that his fall from grace was largely due to an injury. The service matters because it gives a reference point for people outside of the scouting circles (like myself), and it matters for this story because it provides a base to go from nationwide tout (Saad's high position in the scouting rankings) to local knowledge.

Regarding Jim's point, again, DK notes it:

This isn’t just another draft pick that someone missed. That happens all the time and to everyone. Heck, even the Blackhawks passed on Saad three times before finally claiming him 43rd overall. What separates this is that the Penguins’ scouts had it right, and their GM had it wrong... I’d share with you what that man at that table [I'm guessing DK's source for the story] had to say about the reaction to Shero, but it was a series of unprintable epithets.

It's just pointing out that this particular pick is on Shero. It wasn't a "Hindsight is 20/20" thing like a Palat or Patric Hornqvist; it's a "the people who should know better were ignored, and this in particular because Saad was a local player." That's something I didn't know - especially the scout's reaction, though I think someone posted about it before (maybe Jim?) - and thus why I shared it (especially for the majority who do not have a sub to DK's site).

[meow]

Shero drafted players with the intent of trading them for established NHL players, not to develop them and someday have them wear a Pens jersey.

[Gaucho]

In fairness, the last couple of drafts look at least a little more promising.

[meow]

In fairness, the last couple of drafts look at least a little more promising.

There was definitely a change in strategy after the Flyers debacle.

[Gaucho]

In fairness, the last couple of drafts look at least a little more promising.

There was definitely a change in strategy after the Flyers debacle.

Was there also a change in personnel? I assume there is also always some fluctuation in a scouting staff, I don't even know how many the Penguins employ.

[meow]

In fairness, the last couple of drafts look at least a little more promising.

There was definitely a change in strategy after the Flyers debacle.

Was there also a change in personnel? I assume there is also always some fluctuation in a scouting staff, I don't even know how many the Penguins employ.

I think so. Does that even matter, though? Apparently Shero did his own thing now matter what he was advised to do. My comment was that Shero changed his draft strategy some after that.

[Craig]

Shero drafted players with the intent of trading them for established NHL players, not to develop them and someday have them wear a Pens jersey.

Thats a good way to get yourself into cap trouble. Trading cheap players for established ones. Well done ray.

[shmenguin]

yeah, the take away from all of this is that shero's strategy of drafting D-men ended up being just as stupid as it plainly seemed at the time. it's not really about the assessment of saad. it was a guy making a tactical mistake that (to an extent) screwed over his team for years to come.

[mikey]

Goal-scoring comes from entry-level help, defensemen have a longer shelf life of "productivity" - even if it doesn't bear it out numerically - but might not be as on point in the very early parts of their career...so, yeah, he really kind of botched that I guess, huh? That's unfortunate...

[shmenguin]

of course the irony is that we lost in 5 games this year largely because we had no one on D who could move the puck.

[thehockeyguru]

of course the irony is that we lost in 5 games this year largely because we had no one on D who could move the puck.

We lost in the same fashion that we were swept by Boston. In a low scoring tight checking defensive series. I think the whole puck moving defenseman thing was overplayed. We were trash on the PP when our best offensive players were on the ice. If Malkin shows up I think he has more of an impact than a healthy Letang.

[Kicksave]

Source of the post If Malkin shows up I think he has more of an impact than a healthy Letang.

Is that really a knock on Letang though? I mean, Malkin can be a top-5 player in the entire league.

[mikey]

We lost against Boston because our D moved the puck too well. We were coached to send pucks to islands and engage our forwards in out-numbered attacks against...instead of having our D carry the puck and attack with four. We flung it 120 feet down the surface and attacked with one or two on three and four...not hard to reason that we would only score twice in the series...

No team in the history of the game (forward pass era, that is) has won consistently over a long stretch of time without an elite #1 PMD...ever.

[thehockeyguru]

Source of the post If Malkin shows up I think he has more of an impact than a healthy Letang.

Is that really a knock on Letang though? I mean, Malkin can be a top-5 player in the entire league.

It's not a knock on Letang.

[Gaucho]

Maybe Rutherford should give Bobby Clarke a call:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... 1505290304

[mikey]

Were they sour Howards that Gretzky didn't have to enter the 1979 draft and instead was retained by the Oilers before proceeding to spank them into submission in 1985 and 1987 as well...? If only you had done a better job, Bobby, you would have won at least one as a manager...you had the horses...

[Guinness]

Maybe Rutherford should give Bobby Clarke a call:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... 1505290304

Poor, poor Bobby; always the bridesmaid...

[Craig]

I saw an article about clarke sYing that stuff a few days ago. I guess he prefers overpaying over the hill players in both salary and term as a form of tanking rather than acquiring equally inept but less expensive players to fill out the roster during years in which you wont compete.