Rutherford actively pursuing first-rounder.

Postby **Bioshock** » Thu May 28, 2015 7:01 am

No way the Pens get into the first round. They made their bed and now they have to sleep in it. They have no picks and no prospects besides the top level guys that are going to be fundamental to this coming season. If you trade one of them, you're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Postby **Factorial** » Thu May 28, 2015 9:01 am

No way the Pens get into the first round. They made their bed and now they have to sleep in it.

Postby **Gaucho** » Thu May 28, 2015 9:10 am

Another first round loss.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Thu May 28, 2015 11:38 am

Sounds like he's actively pursuing a 3rd round pick from Buffalo for a guy he fired...

Postby **Clams Herbert** » Thu May 28, 2015 11:48 am

Yeah, I'm pretty surprised he didn't seek one out for Shero in NJ, considering it's a division rival and they're unlikely to deal with the Pens otherwise. Anything helps at this point.

Postby **MR25** » Thu May 28, 2015 11:56 am

I think it's dumb to demand compensation for people you willingly fired and no longer wanted in your organization, but that's just me. NHL too dumb to realize that this kind of thing would happen.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Thu May 28, 2015 12:07 pm

Not only too dumb, but a memo went out to all the teams explicitly stating that you can request this for fired persons...

Postby **Avyran** » Thu May 28, 2015 12:09 pm

I think Delpen made a good point in the other thread... perhaps the NHL is pushing the Pens to go for compensation to ensure the rule is enforced?

Or, conversely (and I think this is closer, which he also said), the compensation is being used for a larger trade.

Postby **Rocco** » Thu May 28, 2015 2:01 pm

So the best asset the Pens have for getting a draft pick is their deposed coach?

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Thu May 28, 2015 2:12 pm

Free top 100 pick, likely top 75 in 2016...no complaints. Though, it is stupid, it is to our benefit today.

Postby **Jim** » Thu May 28, 2015 2:15 pm

So the best asset the Pens have for getting a draft pick is their deposed coach?

Trading a prospect for a draft pick so that you can draft a prospect would be a silly/meaningless idea that would cost the team a piece to put into a trade for an actual roster player. Moving Kunitz for a pick is meh because the UFA options to replace him are very limited and you will probably get into a bidding war for them. Moving Scuderi to a cap-bottom team may be the only plausible option... but why would THAT team want to do that? Looking to acquire picks in this draft is simply not something that the Pens could or should do.

Postby **Jim** » Thu May 28, 2015 2:17 pm

Also, if you are looking to get picks and you know that your options are limited... why would you not take a pick from NJ for Shero? It would be an extra piece... ???

Postby **columbia** » Thu May 28, 2015 2:19 pm

This is a 2015 or 2016 pick?

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Thu May 28, 2015 2:35 pm

Buffalo does not have a 2015 third...I believe they have four or five in 2016...

Postby **Avyran** » Fri May 29, 2015 12:26 am

Speaking of scouting... Kovacevic & Yohe talked about hockey for the last half of their so-called "Morning Java" yesterday. They discussed Despres (which I don't feel like getting into; that dead horse needs to stop being beaten), but they also discussed Saad. DK said the following which I either didn't know or forgot about:
The biggest mistake that's been made that's evident in these playoffs... [was] for the Penguins to let Brandon Saad go by when their scouts wanted him.... The Penguins passed him despite their scouts pounding their fists on the table for Brandon Saad.
Yohe said that "Ray & his staff did not like his toughness"... Ray specifically thought he was talented, but soft. "For the Penguins, he wasn't tough enough for them." Edit #3: Yohe shirked it a bit, but DK tried to pin the responsibility on Shero in particular (and Yohe didn't deny it. *Shrug*).

Bleh. Insert insult towards Shero here.

As an aside, I'm enjoying Yohe's reporting again on DK's site. Good stuff. Lemme know if the video isn't viewable from non-subscribers; I'll post it up here (it's an unlisted Youtube).

Just quoting this because DK expanded on this even more in his Friday Insider. I know people are getting sick of the Saad discussion like they are with the Despres discussion, but DK has some cool insight / clarification.

The Penguins’ scouts had made up their collective mind that their choice was Saad, the Gibsonia native, not at all because he was local but entirely because they were stunned he had fallen so far after being a consensus top-five pick, and there he was all the way down at their No. 23 position. They knew Saad’s plunge had much to do with a groin injury that season, but they also knew more about him than most teams, partly because of his proximity, partly because he’d just been invited to Consol Energy Center for a personal visit and tour a month earlier. They couldn’t believe their good fortune.

But Shero wanted a defenseman. And being the GM, he got a defenseman, Joe Morrow.

The Penguins already had a ton of defensemen, including in Morrow’s specific mold, but that had nothing to do with this. Neither did Saad, at least not much. Plain and simple, Shero believed passionately that he was onto something — almost Moneyball-esque — in that the industry under-valued puck-moving defensemen, and his primary purpose in piling up such prospects was for the trade.

I’m not guessing at this, either. Shero told me exactly that in a one-on-one conversation that very night just off the draft floor.

Shero lived for the trade, the big trade. And no doubt that will hold true in his new post as the Devils’ GM. He’s always believed he could get the best of anyone in a dealing mode, so he preferred to use the draft not as a way to build up young talent or reduce cap pressure but to pile up more trading chips.

...

This isn’t just another draft pick that someone missed. That happens all the time and to everyone. Heck, even the Blackhawks passed on Saad three times before finally claiming him 43rd overall. What separates this is that the Penguins’ scouts had it right, and their GM had it wrong. The guys who spent the entire year spanning the globe and studying the entire class had it right, and their GM usurped them at the table.

Will be interesting to see if he continues this style of drafting at the Devils, or if Lou Lamoriello will reign him in.

A couple other tidbits from the Insider in the spoiler. He backtracks on Despres a bit.

(Edited to make post a little smaller... also to say again that I've been pretty impressed with the DK / Yohe reporting.)

Postby **FLPensFan** » Fri May 29, 2015 1:14 am

Speaking of scouting... Kovacevic & Yohe talked about hockey for the last half of their so-called "Morning Java" yesterday. They discussed Despres (which I don't feel like getting into; that dead horse needs to stop being beaten), but they also discussed Saad. DK said the following which I either didn't know or forgot about:
The biggest mistake that's been made that's evident in these playoffs... [was] for the Penguins to let Brandon Saad go by when their scouts wanted him.... The Penguins passed him despite their scouts pounding their fists on the table for Brandon Saad.
Yohe said that "Ray & his staff did not like his toughness"... Ray specifically thought he was talented, but soft. "For the Penguins, he wasn't tough enough for them." Edit #3: Yohe shirked it a bit, but DK tried to pin the responsibility on Shero in particular (and Yohe didn't deny it. *Shrug*).

Bleh. Insert insult towards Shero here.

As an aside, I'm enjoying Yohe's reporting again on DK's site. Good stuff. Lemme know if the video isn't viewable from non-subscribers; I'll post it up here (it's an unlisted Youtube).
Just quoting this because DK expanded on this even more in his Friday Insider. I know people are getting sick of the Saad discussion like they are with the Despres discussion, but DK has some cool insight / clarification.
The Penguins’ scouts had made up their collective mind that their choice was Saad, the Gibsonia native, not at all because he was local but entirely because they were stunned he had fallen so far after being a consensus top-five pick, and there he was all the way down at their No. 23 position. They knew Saad’s plunge had much to do with a groin injury that season, but they also knew more about him than most teams, partly because of his proximity, partly because he’d just been invited to Consol Energy Center for a personal visit and tour a month earlier. They couldn’t believe their good fortune.

But Shero wanted a defenseman. And being the GM, he got a defenseman, Joe Morrow.

The Penguins already had a ton of defensemen, including in Morrow’s specific mold, but that had nothing to do with this. Neither did Saad, at least not much. Plain and simple, Shero believed passionately that he was onto something — almost Moneyball-esque — in that the industry under-valued puck-moving defensemen, and his primary purpose in piling up such prospects was for the trade.

I’m not guessing at this, either. Shero told me exactly that in a one-on-one conversation that very night just off the draft floor.

Shero lived for the trade, the big trade. And no doubt that will hold true in his new post as the Devils’ GM. He’s always believed he could get the best of anyone in a dealing mode, so he preferred to use the draft not as a way to build up young talent or reduce cap pressure but to pile up more trading chips.

...

This isn’t just another draft pick that someone missed. That happens all the time and to everyone. Heck, even the Blackhawks passed on Saad three times before finally claiming him 43rd overall. What separates this is that the Penguins’ scouts had it right, and their GM had it wrong. The guys who spent the entire year spanning the globe and studying the entire class had it right, and their GM usurped them at the table.
Will be interesting to see if he continues this style of drafting at the Devils, or if Lou Lamoriello will reign him in.

A couple other tidbits from the Insider in the spoiler. He backtracks on Despres a bit.
• When the March 6 Friday Insider, shortly after the Simon Despres trade, described how the Penguins had off-ice concerns about him — without detailing those — I didn’t mention that this information came from outside the team. At least not until a reader here in comments asked. I’ve mentioned many times since then, on the site, on social media, on broadcasts, but not in the Insider until now. So consider this just checking a box, if you will.

The information absolutely, positively did not originate from the Penguins. And actually, the first of the two sources for the material doesn’t even have anything to do with sports.

• Expect good news on the Kris Letang front sooner rather than later. I’ve heard comparatively little about Pascal Dupuis, but the Letang vibes are relentlessly upbeat.

So, now this whole thing has me wondering how good or bad the Penguins scouting system really is. I've bashed on them a lot, but man, looks like Shero and Bylsma are cut from the same cloth....stubborn to a fault.

Postby **Tico Rick** » Fri May 29, 2015 3:35 am

Maybe that's why GMJR has not changed scouting personnel - perhaps they actually know what they are doing.

Postby **the wicked child** » Fri May 29, 2015 7:16 am

Sounds to me like Shero has a gambling addiction.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Fri May 29, 2015 7:31 am

I still don't believe in this scouting staff...just because they wanted a fringe first rounder at 23 doesn't really justify anything for me...it's nice, don't get me wrong...but this doesn't put them on the map...

Postby **Jim** » Fri May 29, 2015 8:04 am

The Penguins’ scouts had made up their collective mind that their choice was Saad, the Gibsonia native, not at all because he was local but entirely because they were stunned he had fallen so far after being a consensus top-five pick...

Consensus TOP 5 PICK... that was taken 43rd. Top 5... 43rd... Says a lot about the Pens scouting staff (and why moving draft picks for actual players didn't hurt the team, at all)

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Fri May 29, 2015 8:40 am

Top 5 what? From Pennsylvania...?

Postby **Craig** » Fri May 29, 2015 8:44 am

There were plenty of projections a year abead of his draft that had him in the top 5. Him dropping a ton doesnt change that. Not that im defending the article.

Postby **columbia** » Fri May 29, 2015 8:47 am

I'm slightly skeptical that he would have developed enough under the Shero/Bylsma regime to have made an impact so soon for the Penguins.

Postby **meow** » Fri May 29, 2015 8:48 am

Sounds to me like Shero has a gambling addiction.

At least he is close to Atlantic City now.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Fri May 29, 2015 9:00 am

If that's the case, and I recall him being considered a potential top-10 pick, but not consensus top-5 for whatever it's worth...then the Jackets got a steal with Seth Ambroz...who I thought was rated even more highly 12-18 months prior to his draft...Sean Couturier was the consensus #1 at that point...with Larsson and Nugent-Hopkins not far behind...