φφ ECF GAME 1: PENS VS BOLTS φφ

[columbia]

I'm not commenting on the issue at hand, but, rather, your terrible understanding of persuasive rhetoric. If you were trying to change someone's mind - which presumably was your intention - then you will fail from the get go, by condescending to your audience.

[cma3585]

Simple, a 5 minute boarding that results in an injury leads to a game misconduct. Letang didn't miss 10 mins of the game to go play video games in the locker room. They blew that. Then calling 2 mins on the Dumoulin hit where, he was very much out of it as per his facial expressions and needed help off the ice...all caused by a second shove that was even more unnecessary than the first, is just an absolute joke. You don't need to read the rulebook like it's your Bible before bedtime every night to understand these things. You also don't need to do that to understand that what Callahan did, his resulting after game attitude, the NHL's lack of follow through is a blatant disregard to player safety (ironic, no?) which will do nothing but encourage more of these types of hits which they claim, but haven't really shown, they want to be out of the game.

[offsides]

Simple, a 5 minute boarding that results in an injury leads to a game misconduct. Letang didn't miss 10 mins of the game to go play video games in the locker room. They blew that. Then calling 2 mins on the Dumoulin hit where, he was very much out of it as per his facial expressions and needed help off the ice...all caused by a second shove that was even more unnecessary than the first, is just an absolute joke. You don't need to read the rulebook like it's your Bible before bedtime every night to understand these things. You also don't need to do that to understand that what Callahan did, his resulting after game attitude, the NHL's lack of follow through is a blatant disregard to player safety (ironic, no?) which will do nothing but encourage more of these types of hits which they claim, but haven't really shown, they want to be out of the game.

So, if the NHL\refs are this incompetent.....why watch? If you hate something so much, just move on. They say the NBA is pretty exciting and maybe the refs are much better.

[cma3585]

As Orlando Penguin pointed out, the sport itself to me is the best in the world. Why should people presume I shouldn't watch a sport I have a problem with when it's by far the most entertaining? The NHL and their inconsistencies and MANY disagreeing with that doesn't mean you simply can say, "why do you watch then?" Do you agree with everything the NHL does? If not, why do YOU watch. Does anyone agree with everything their favorite league does and calls things? The answer is no. Why it's so utterly hard to comprehend how it's possible to enjoy a sport and a team all the while disagreeing vehemently with certain calls is well beyond my own comprehension, I guess.

It's also hilarious that question even comes into play with people disagreeing with some absolutely disgraceful hits and a lack of punishment. Something should be done and it's 100% ok to voice your displeasure w/ how things are while still supporting the sport. Speaking of, these are the very people expecting things to be called by the rulebook, something evidently "most of" us don't "know". God forbid NHL fans expect the refs to abide by the rulebook. You're saying we shouldn't watch and don't have a right to complain when it's not called that way?

[dodint]

https://twitter.com/TBTimes_JSmith/stat ... 9791686656

Well the garage league is back at it again letting people get away with attempted murder. Glad to know boarding is now legal, time to put Hedman's head through the glass since it's not a suspendable offense.

I know this sounds like dodinting and whining, but when I heard this today my initial response was two-fold. I don't really feeling like watching anymore. One because that ruling makes me sick, and two because the Pens are Charmin soff and will let it keep happening.

My give a **** is completely out.

[MR25]

I think I'm fairly knowledgeable of what the rules of hockey are.

It's the inconsistent application that I don't understand. Like, how can you ignore a fairly blatant hooking/hold/interference when you're staring right at it, but call the most ticky-tacky love-tap slash right after it?

I understand the game is fast, but staring at (and ignoring) a textbook penalty screams incompetence. It's also sad when we can sit here during a 1 or 2 goal game and say "I feel a penalty coming", because refs tend to ref to the score, and not the actual infractions occurring.

I don't know. There's just too much "What the **** are you doing?" when it comes to NHL refs. I have trouble explaining penalties to new/newish fans because I have no idea what the refs are going to call and what they're going to ignore. And it's kind of embarrassing.

[cma3585]

I think I'm fairly knowledgeable of what the rules of hockey are.

It's the inconsistent application that I don't understand. Like, how can you ignore a fairly blatant hooking/hold/interference when you're staring right at it, but call the most ticky-tacky love-tap slash right after it?

I understand the game is fast, but staring at (and ignoring) a textbook penalty screams incompetence. It's also sad when we can sit here during a 1 or 2 goal game and say "I feel a penalty coming", because refs tend to ref to the score, and not the actual infractions occurring.

I don't know. There's just too much "What the **** are you doing?" when it comes to NHL refs. I have trouble explaining penalties to new/newish fans because I have no idea what the refs are going to call and what they're going to ignore. And it's kind of embarrassing.

THEN WHY DO YOU WATCH?!?!?

[dodint]

Liking an activity and condoning an organization that oversees one form of that activity isn't the same thing.

It's not our fault the NHL can't even play a game correctly.

[offsides]

As Orlando Penguin pointed out, the sport itself to me is the best in the world. Why should people presume I shouldn't watch a sport I have a problem with when it's by far the most entertaining? The NHL and their inconsistencies and MANY disagreeing with that doesn't mean you simply can say, "why do you watch then?" Do you agree with everything the NHL does? If not, why do YOU watch. Does anyone agree with everything their favorite league does and calls things? The answer is no. Why it's so utterly hard to comprehend how it's possible to enjoy a sport and a team all the while disagreeing vehemently with certain calls is well beyond my own comprehension, I guess.

It's also hilarious that question even comes into play with people disagreeing with some absolutely disgraceful hits and a lack of punishment. Something should be done and it's 100% ok to voice your displeasure w/ how things are while still supporting the sport. Speaking of, these are the very people expecting things to be called by the rulebook, something evidently "most of" us don't "know". God forbid NHL fans expect the refs to abide by the rulebook. You're saying we shouldn't watch and don't have a right to complain when it's not called that way?

Is it just the Pens that get the bad calls? Calls you think are completely wrong, other teams fans probably think are OK. I read the GDT and it seems the refs miss about 10 calls a period for us and all the ones against us are completely wrong. Do you think all refs are bad or just the ones doing Pens games? Do the refs hate just us or are other teams being victimized also. If the refs and NHL are incompetent and can't make the "correct call", what can be done? When I watch hockey, I just hope we play through the bad calls. All the moaning and whining won't change anything. I have been watching and enjoying hockey since the mid 1970's and the fan complaining seems much worse nowadays. Or maybe I'm just not up to today's standards. Or maybe you guys are right and the "NHL sucks".

[dodint]

The actions of DoPS and the in-game calls by refs are different beasts.

I can deal with the on-ice crew missing stuff from time to time, or calling something a little too tight. And there is a solid group of folks here that admit when the Pens got away with one.

DoPS (and to a certain extent replay reviews) should be pretty easy work and deserves all of the scrutiny that it gets. Saying they're getting it right is saying that you think the Callahan hit was so much less severe than the Wilson/Sheary incident that the former doesn't even deserve a fine.

[Orlando Penguin]

It can improve in any sport, just like the players could and the coaches could. Unlike being a professional athlete or athlete in general, officiating in any sport is accessible for most. There are clinics for it in every sport around the country. House leagues, youth leagues, semi-pro leagues, amateur leagues all pay for quality officials...you can work your way up the ladder, and if you're as good at picking out what the best in the world do (and as someone that watches other leagues on a semi-regular basis, these guys are clearly the best in the world) from your couch, then you will be dynamite on the ice or on the diamond or the floor...and if you're not, at least maybe it will give you some better perspective...

OK, so what would you say to those of us in the audience who officiate not one, but two sports and have been doing that for 10+ years and yet we still complain about the inconsistency and the application of what we see? I get it -- the game is fast, you only get one look at something in live speed and don't have the luxury of all of these replays. I deal with it from time to time myself. Hell, I can see why MLB has replay to correct certain calls. But how does it explain when I can watch Game 5 of Penguins-Caps and see replays of two blatant penalties (one by each team -- a high stick and a crosscheck) and in those replays you can see the referee LOOKING RIGHT AT IT and they don't call it? Where it is perceived that the NHL officials get themselves in trouble is by what was referenced above -- officiating by the score. If you're going to call that interference in the first period, you better sure as hell call it with a minute left in a tie game or if it happens in overtime. Even though it was pretty questionable, I give the ref that called the Letang interference with 2:00 left in Game 6 credit for having the stones to call it. But where most hockey fans also have a problem is the supplemental penalties even after the NHL has PLENTY of time to look at it. There's been plenty of examples in these playoffs so I won't recount them all but even the novice fan can figure out that giving out a 1-game suspension for one hit and not giving out a suspension for a very similar hit is pretty questionable.

[mikey]

To answer the first question, I'd say that you're not wrong for starters. It's ok to have issues with officiating from time to time, it's ok to have issue with supplementary discipline from time to time, it's ok to bellow "shoot" on the PP from time to time...it all has a time and a place...unfortunately, complaining about officiating takes up all the time and every place...that's really where I get fed up...it's just not that big of a deal to be the majority of posts in a GDT...that's really all.

As for me, and the rest of that there, I'm a context caller myself. I'm not sure that there's a ref in the world that calls anything just pure black and white...and if he did, he wouldn't make it very far probably. It crosses all sports...how often do you see pass interference on a hail mary? How "lenient" does the strike zone get in an 8-0 game? How often are star players called for travelling? Life's just tough, I guess. But for me, if there's a cross-check at center ice that puts a player down, that will get my attention...a battle in front of the net with the net-mouth guy on the power play going down from the same stick motion, unlikely to be called by me...or any ref...I mean, unless it's really dastardly done, I'm just not gonna call that...you're allowed to defend your own net...but you can't just be using your stick to put players down all over the surface...context matters, big time.

I mean, to be fair, we did try the "no touching" rules for two years...and the game was muddled by just constant standing around from unearned power plays, diving went way up, ES scoring stayed about the same, players got much more injured because without a little bit of interference and players being as fast and as reckless as they are, players were concussed left and right as a direct result...even on clean hits...the speed of the collision was increased because you took out the red line, you made the game no touch and then you pulled the carpet out on goalies playing the puck all in one shot...the result: pain. And really, not any better game play. Yeah, you got the artificial boom from power play scoring. Power plays are not exciting by and large. Gameflow was lost in a see of useless penalties that had no effect on the action. I guess defensemen puck-touching time was bumped up, which added to the game, so I suppose that's a positive to take out of it...at the same time, all the rule changes pushed teams back defensively, so that they wouldn't get beat because if you got behind a puck carrier, any stick touch got you impounded for two minutes...so you had always be above the puck and then because there was no two-line pass rule, you couldn't defend that line any more...so everyone just packed in front of the goalie...I mean, best laid plans, sure...but that was kind of a dud...

Now, I'm not 60 or anything...but does anyone remember what it used to be like? Even in the 90's? Players just raked with sticks, and held onto, water-skied behind and the like...? The game has been cleaned up considerably over the last 100 years...now, that doesn't make it perfect or even good if you want...but I just don't know what you want really...I hear the terms and I read them, but it won't solve anything...ok, you want "consistency" ...yeah, I mean, you want that until you don't...if you called the game by the book...and I mean, by. the. book. There would be about 7:30 of even strength per game and that's without accounting for fouls related to cursing...every stick swing could be a slash, every tug could be a hook, every incidental collision could be interference...it could...we kinda saw that take shape and it did blow...and like I said, it may have had a hand in ending a few good careers...it's not really all that safe...

I definitely get your point...ya know, I saw a high stick, a whistle stopped play and no call was made...I mean, I can't explain that kind of stuff...that seems wrong. I just don't know there. I don't have an answer to that. That's not something I'm in favor of. Like I said, I want it to get better, it can get better, but I'd rather have the input of the players and the coaches than the fans...and I know that's probably not popular and "old boys club" and that whole story...but what kind of game do the players want to play? The fans are obviously going to watch anyhow. Ratings are up in local markets, revenues are at an all-time high, the game is spreading around the country at the youth level instead of just Northern states that start with "M"...let's get more people involved instead of a small competition committee and Stephane Quintal, let's go over film, let's set a standard, let's stick to that standard and make any modifications along the way and then let's hold everyone accountable for upholding that standard...I am for that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all.

I don't know, I get the frustration, but who are you hurting? Who are you ruining it for? Not Sid Crosby, he can't hear you. Mike Sullivan doesn't care. Jim Rutherford is asleep. The owners are making money. The TV stations are doing just fine. You're not gonna ruin it for me, I love the game more than anything. And you're not going to affect change as an individual or even a small group. No one boycotted the game after three work stoppages in 18 years or whatever...no one (not enough to matter, that is) is going to boycott over this perceived problem that is tied heavily to confirmation bias...so you're just ruining the game for you (and not you, the individual, OP...royal you) and maybe the person you're sitting next to if they are actually trying to enjoy it for what it is...

[shmenguin]

I don't expect the on ice officials to do a good job. I expect the people with 5,000 replay angles to do a good job.

This is a failure without much excuse.

[dodint]

TGGI

[cma3585]

I don't expect the on ice officials to do a good job. I expect the people with 5,000 replay angles to do a good job.

This is a failure without much excuse.

This x1000

[Lelldorin]

I don't expect the on ice officials to do a good job. I expect the people with 5,000 replay angles to do a good job.

This is a failure without much excuse.

This x1000

Amen

[Gaucho]

Pens in 5.

[meow]

[Silentom]

[columbia]

Pens in 5.

I like your optimism.

[tifosi77]

I don't expect the on ice officials to do a good job. I expect the people with 5,000 replay angles to do a good job.

This is a failure without much excuse.

I was out of pock much of the day yesterday, and just saw that there wasn't even a hearing on the Callahan hit. That's absurd.

Oh well, message sent. Thanks, DOPS.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I might complain here and there about officiating, because I'm a fan and think with my heart more often than not, but the refs are in an impossible position. You could call slashing and cross checking on every play in hockey. Similarly, holding goes on in every play of every NFL game and there is illegal contact in every play if an NBA game. Even if they could call everything, do we want them to? Hockey games would turn into power play extravaganzas, kind of forcing a gimmick into the sport


I agree with shmenguin though. I don't know how you can look at the tape and be ok with what Callahan did.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

Also, the "no one will watch the NHL because the officials are a joke" is an empty arguement

The NBA has had refs (well, ref) SENT TO PRISON for gambling on games and altering calls. Hell, the reffing in these playoffs have been shambolic and the NBA is still as popular as ever


Hockey will never catch on in the mainstream because hockey is impossible to play for most city kids

[mikey]

MIMH nails it from downtown.

[dodint]

That is a horrible argument.

Our bad thing isn't so bad because their bad thing is terrible.

Yikes.