Off Season Moves Thread

[Lemon Berry Lobster]

I haven't looked at the stats but how many times did Downie actually leave the team short-handed? Was it that bad or did he take someone with him quite a lot of the time?

I'm just wondering if 'because he's Steve Downie' it's more noticeable when he goes off.

I really like the guy and think he brings some positives. I would like to see him back.

He led the NHL in PIMs. He certainly has positives, such as his play making, but he accrues far too many penalty minutes to be a positive addition to the team. The experiment was worth the risk but it is time to move on.

[MR25]

That still doesn't answer the question.

How many times were those penalty minutes putting the team shorthanded? I'd wager that the majority were coincidental or majors/misconducts, but I don't have the numbers available to back that up.

[FLPensFan]

That still doesn't answer the question.

How many times were those penalty minutes putting the team shorthanded? I'd wager that the majority were coincidental or majors/misconducts, but I don't have the numbers available to back that up.

I can honestly say I don't think I have ever seen a person get unfairly penalized as Downie. Matt Cooke was pretty bad when he hear, but Downie just breaths and gets called. Two guys push after the whistle, Downie gets called. I imagine he deserves a lot of the misconducts and things he gets, but some of the penalties after the whistle I don't think are his fault....except for his name is Steve Downie.

I don't know of a site that can break it down as to penalties that left a team short handed, or penalties drawn.
I'm going through Downie by looking at his game log and the box scores. I'll update this as I go. First two months already done.

In October and November combined, Downie put his team short-handed 11 times.
In December and January combined, Downie put his team short-handed 8 times (plus once a double minor SH, and he missed 5 games)
In February and March combined, Downie put his team short-handed 8 times (he also missed 3 games)
In April (regular season), he played 4 games and missed 2. He took 10 minutes in penalties. Each penalty put the team SH, a total of 5 times in April regular season
In the playoffs, he took 2 penalties. Both penalties led to his team being short-handed.

32 times in the regular season he put his team short handed. That's roughly 64 minutes of penalties. 25% of the time he took a penalty, it resulted in his team being short handed. It's actually much worse when you take out the fighting and misconduct penalties that he got....probably over 50% of his minors put his team SH. TOO MUCH!

[shmenguin]

his fault or not...downie put us short handed a ton. a ton.

[Lemon Berry Lobster]

That still doesn't answer the question.

How many times were those penalty minutes putting the team shorthanded? I'd wager that the majority were coincidental or majors/misconducts, but I don't have the numbers available to back that up.

He got penalties for looking at the refs wrong, I don't have the numbers either but I can nearly guarantee he put the team shorthanded more times than coincidental minors were called. I would look up the stats but I wouldn't know what site would provide that information other than going through all the games and tallying up the minutes.

[Pavement]

That still doesn't answer the question.

How many times were those penalty minutes putting the team shorthanded? I'd wager that the majority were coincidental or majors/misconducts, but I don't have the numbers available to back that up.

I can honestly say I don't think I have ever seen a person get unfairly penalized as Downie. Matt Cooke was pretty bad when he hear, but Downie just breaths and gets called. Two guys push after the whistle, Downie gets called. I imagine he deserves a lot of the misconducts and things he gets, but some of the penalties after the whistle I don't think are his fault....except for his name is Steve Downie.

I don't know of a site that can break it down as to penalties that left a team short handed, or penalties drawn.
I'm going through Downie by looking at his game log and the box scores. I'll update this as I go. First two months already done.

In October and November combined, Downie put his team short-handed 11 times.
In December and January combined, Downie put his team short-handed 8 times (plus once a double minor SH, and he missed 5 games)
In February and March combined, Downie put his team short-handed 8 times (he also missed 3 games)
In April (regular season), he played 4 games and missed 2. He took 10 minutes in penalties. Each penalty put the team SH, a total of 5 times in April regular season
In the playoffs, he took 2 penalties. Both penalties led to his team being short-handed.

32 times in the regular season he put his team short handed. That's roughly 64 minutes of penalties. 25% of the time he took a penalty, it resulted in his team being short handed. It's actually much worse when you take out the fighting and misconduct penalties that he got....probably over 50% of his minors put his team SH. TOO MUCH!

Thanks for pulling the numbers together FLPF. :thumb

I agree that it's a lot but I think I'd still have him on the team if the choice was mine.

[Craig]

I think Downie is a net positive, just like Cooke was. People said the exact same things about Cooke while he was still here, but instead of Matt Cooke being the reference for Matt Cooke, it was Ruutu. The team was a worse team for lack of Cooke and the same would be true for Downie. I'd love for him to return even if it were for more money.

[meow]

Cooke brought some pk ability. Other than that, it is a great player comparison.

[Pitts]

I think Downie is a net positive, just like Cooke was. People said the exact same things about Cooke while he was still here, but instead of Matt Cooke being the reference for Matt Cooke, it was Ruutu. The team was a worse team for lack of Cooke and the same would be true for Downie. I'd love for him to return even if it were for more money.

This is exactly how I feel. Everyone complained about Cooke when he was here. But, when that element was missing, they complained the team was flat and had no backbone. Downie brought that back and more.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I haven't looked at the stats but how many times did Downie actually leave the team short-handed? Was it that bad or did he take someone with him quite a lot of the time?

I'm just wondering if 'because he's Steve Downie' it's more noticeable when he goes off.

I really like the guy and think he brings some positives. I would like to see him back.

Led the league in minors and 10 min misconducts


He is a net negative

[King Colby]

Cooke was a much better player

[columbia]

Cooke was a much better player

But with a greater downside, because you're not of any use to the team while on the suspension list.

[King Colby]

How many times was he healthy scratched

[meow]

How many times was he healthy scratched

Was he ever healthy scratched? I know he had a hand and a...groin..?... problem. I can't recall him be a HC ever.

[King Colby]

How many times was he healthy scratched

Was he ever healthy scratched? I know he had a hand and a...groin..?... problem. I can't recall him be a HC ever.

I don't think ever. Downie was. A lot.

[Kicksave]

How many times was he healthy scratched

Was he ever healthy scratched? I know he had a hand and a...groin..?... problem. I can't recall him be a HC ever.

I don't think ever. Downie was. A lot.

Downie was healthy scratched a lot? He played 72 of 82 games, with a few injuries mixed in and played all 5 playoff games?

[King Colby]

How many times was he healthy scratched

Was he ever healthy scratched? I know he had a hand and a...groin..?... problem. I can't recall him be a HC ever.

I don't think ever. Downie was. A lot.

Downie was healthy scratched a lot? He played 72 of 82 games, with a few injuries mixed in and played all 5 playoff games?

At least 5 times healthy scratched later in the year

[Kicksave]

He got scratched 2-3 times in late Feb/early March. Then he was injured in late March/early April.

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nhl/2140/steve-downie

I wouldn't say "a lot" is the right word.

[shmenguin]

it's enough to illustrate a significant difference between him and cooke.

but no...no "a lot"

[FLPensFan]

Posted this at the other place, with nothing but my own self as a source, but I wonder if the Penguins could pull off a Sutter, Harrington, and a 3rd to STL for Backes and Oshie trade? While that may seem a bit one-sided in the Penguins favor, there are several aspects to it that may make sense for both teams.

1. STL needs cap space. Tarasenko is going to get paid, hearing 7-9M possible. Jake Allen is also an RFA this year, and may jump up to the 2-3M range. Jaden Schwartz and Dimitri Jaskin are RFAs next year, and both of them are going to get raises, with Schwartz probably doubling his salary up to the 4-5M range. This trade would open up about 4.25M in salary space for STL.

2. STL has a lot of cap space tied up in their top 3 defenseman...Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, and Bouwmeester make 16.1M. They could use some cheaper defenseman with upside, and Harrington would fit that bill. There were rumors of their interest in Harrington last year, though before the Bortuzzo trade.

3. Berglund and Oshie were rumored to be on the block most of last year, and still now to try and clear space. If you are looking for space and to not take on salary in return, Oshie for Harrington and a 3rd isn't that bad of a deal.

4. Backes is a UFA making 4.5M, and he's 31 years old. He could demand a bit of a raise after this year. He is more of a 2nd line center, but if the Penguins want more scoring throughout their lineup, he is a huge upgrade over Sutter. He's a good defensive player, much more physical player, one of the top faceoff guys in the league, has scored over 20 goals 5 times, with 2 of those times being over 30 goals. In Sutter, the Blues get a UFA making 3.3M, which gives them some savings for this year. They could probably resign him for the same amount that Backes made this year. They could either use Sutter as their 2nd line center behind Statsny, or use Berglund, Lehtera, and not to mention they have guys like Robbi Fabri and Ivan Barbashev waiting in the wings too.

The trade makes sense for both teams. They swap upcoming UFA centers, with Pittsburgh getting the more skilled center and STL getting the cheaper center. STL gets a young defenseman and cap space for Oshie. Pittsburgh gets another speedy, gritty forward to go with Perron and Hornqvist, and a much improved 3rd line C. Malkin or Crosby go out of the lineup, Backes is more than capable to step up in their place as well.

[meow]

I'm an Oshie fan, but I wouldn't want Oshie on the Pens...if that makes sense. He has a lot of good qualities to his game, but he turns into Mr. Invisible come playoff time. Your trade scenario does make a lot of sense.

[FLPensFan]

I'm an Oshie fan, but I wouldn't want Oshie on the Pens...if that makes sense. He has a lot of good qualities to his game, but he turns into Mr. Invisible come playoff time. Your trade scenario does make a lot of sense.

That's a good point, too. One that I failed to look at. Backes isn't so hot in the post season either. On paper, it looks good and makes sense.

The other minor deal that I would want the Penguins to look at is Brandon Pirri of the Panthers. I've been singing the praises of Jimmy Hayes, or looking at Trocheck for awhile, but I think the odd man out in Florida is going to be Pirri. A center converted to wing, he's got sniper ability, 22 goals and 2 assists this past season. 35 goals in 102 NHL games, while never getting much more than 3rd line minutes. He's had some concussion issues this past year, but a 3rd or 4th rounder for him, and I would do it. He's stuck behind Huberdeau, Hayes, Jagr, Boyes, and Trocheck at least on the wings. He's someone the Penguins could add for cheap that has goal scoring potential. He's only 24 years old.

[Craig]

I'm an Oshie fan, but I wouldn't want Oshie on the Pens...if that makes sense. He has a lot of good qualities to his game, but he turns into Mr. Invisible come playoff time. Your trade scenario does make a lot of sense.

How does that not fit the pens model?

[Clams Herbert]

Phil the Thrill. Do you give up what it'll cost? It's not even a matter of if, he will unquestionably score goals playing with Crosby. To me, it's completely worth it. If you can package around Sutter, Bennett, and Harrington, maybe a pick or two, you do it.

[MR25]

His cap hit goes up next season to $8 mil until 2021-22.

I don't think it's worth killing the rest of the team's depth.