Pens Regular Season discussion

[NTP66]

I credit @mikey for Dumoulin's play this season. Clearly, he fed off the hate.

Didn't need him. Dumoulin is fringe enough...

Dumoulin has a pretty limited skill set himself...

[joopen]

I have to wonder how much Gonchar has helped him with his puck skills

[mikey]

I credit @mikey for Dumoulin's play this season. Clearly, he fed off the hate.

Didn't need him. Dumoulin is fringe enough...

Dumoulin has a pretty limited skill set himself...

Yes sir, and I'm quite enjoying that he took a turn for the better. W'e'll see long-term if it's just a match with Lovejoy that has made him so effective or if he has really taken a big step later in his development arc. To me though, skating is better, poise is better, that was the one thing for me where I really had some doubts, is that he was so unsure of himself that he just kind of barfed up the puck sometimes...the overall outlet passing game is better...

He has really turned into, and I hate to use this word because it's so meaningless, "solid" defenseman...

I hope this trend continues...

As for me, in the offseason, I'll go back and watch some early tape on him to see what I may have missed or what gave clues to him maybe being better than a third pairing guy after all...I live a riveting life...

[NTP66]

He has been outplaying Lovejoy for a while now, IMO. And, for the record, I'm only busting your chops. He's clearly a different player now than he was in camp and in preseason. It's nice to see a guy like this take the next step and succeed. And, while it's still very early, Pouliot looks much better (and comfortable) now, too.

[mikey]

And I welcome it, I make a lot of predictions (a lot more than just here too...I have some embarrassing notes regarding the future stardom of Hannu Toivonen, etc.) and when you make predictions, you're bound to be wrong sometimes...it's actually helpful to me to get them fed back to me so I can continue to get better with them in all honesty...not to mention, life isn't that serious...

And yes, he has been outplaying Lovejoy for the last few weeks certainly...

[bhflyhigh]

In 2014 I recall Maata leading rushes into the offensive zone. When 100% if not mobile, what would you qualify him as?

-Maata.....top 4/mobility decent/defensive instincts great

Since his first game here Maata has been noticeably below average in the speed department. It's something that he should probably focus on improving and I'm sure the coaching staff has discussed this with him. He does however have a great mind for the game. He thinks quick and makes really smart plays. He's shifty and stable on his skates, but as others have stated, he's slow, and this year even slower.

[Jim]

Weak #2 or Strong #4 LD Maatta

So, a #3?

[mikey]

Well, not necessarily. But possibly. I consider a #3 as someone that can "lead" a pairing...they are the driving force behind its success. While as some players are more support players and struggle to lead a pair. A good recent example is Dennis Seidenberg...probably a fringe Conn Smythe candidate in 2011 for Boston paired with Zdeno Chara. Played excellent hockey. And has played excellent with a strong partner, noticeably better. When paired with a weaker player like Adam McQuaid, he didn't have strong enough - well, anything - to be effective when paired with a weaker player (McQuaid is not dissimilar to Bortuzzo, if you're unfamiliar with his game). Seidenberg was a very good player. Maybe not unlike Olli Maatta in some ways. Quiet, effective, smart, capable skater, puck mover, but not God's gift to anything though. Seidenberg can play #2 minutes with a really great partner, he could play really well in the #4 hole with a strong partner...but he can't be a #3 or really even a #5 because he doesn't have the capability to "lead" a pairing...

Some people would scoff and say, "well, no duh, he played with Chara, of course he looked good..." but it does take a certain of player to be able to mesh well enough with good talent to really elevate their game. We saw it first hand very recently. Ian Cole, a third pairing guy coming off of a strong finish as Scuderi's partner, plays with Kris Letang...complete abortion. When paired with a smarter player and effective communicator in Scuderi, he played very well.

Danny Markov is another good example similar to Ian Cole...Damon Severson, a good example, of a future "leader" to a pairing...who can be paired with a weaker d-man and they can both find very good success.

Small, overlooked intricacy that goes a long way when evaluating and team building...

[Rocco]

I have to wonder how much Gonchar has helped him with his puck skills

I hope that Dumo is smart enough to tune out Gonch when Gonch starts giving advice on defensive positioning.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I'd be surprised if defense was even in Gonchar's curriculum

[Jim]

I'd be surprised if defense was even in Gonchar's curriculum

What about "How to still be out of breath 10 minutes after you get off of the ice" class?

[Silentom]

I'd be happier if he taught a 'seeing eye slapper' class.

[Rocco]

I'd be surprised if defense was even in Gonchar's curriculum

Gonch played pretty solid defense for an 18 month stretch from 2007 until Therrien's firing. This was the one time in Gonch's career his defense could ever have been described as something better than "ineffectual". After MT was canned Gonch's defensive knowledge slowly leaked out of his brains and he reverted to form.

[doublewinder]

#1 RD Letang - Mobile, offensive-minded defenseman (+ skating, puck moving and carrying, recovery ability; - hockey sense, positional integrity, pairing limitations)
Weak #2 or Strong #4 LD Maatta - Defensive-minded, two-way defenseman (+ hockey sense, "pair-ability"; - shot, high-end skill set to lead a pairing)
#4/#5 LD/RD Daley - Mobile, offensive defenseman (+ puck carrying, + puck skills; - positional integrity)
#4/#5 LD Dumoulin - Defensive-minded defenseman (+ positional integrity; - puck skills)
#5/6 RD Lovejoy - Mobile, defensive-minded defenseman (+ skating, + support rush, + stick positioning; - puck skills, strength)
#6/7 LD Cole - Physical defenseman (+ competitor, hitting; - hockey sense, passing, "pair-ability")

Two bonafide top-4 guys, not a ton of puck skills, just kind of a mish-mash of pieces. The saving grace is the synergy that Dumo-Lovejoy have shown. Without that, we wouldn't be in playoff contention I don't believe...

Doesn't look awful though, I mean, Paul Martin and Niskanen, what were they? Were they that big a loss?

What do you see as Pouliet's potential?

[MR25]

Paul Martin was definitely a loss.

[shafnutz05]

@mikey, are you going to the April 9th game in Philly? Thinking about going to a game, it's been a few years. Of course, also want to go to the Eagles-Stillers game this year.

[mikey]

#1 RD Letang - Mobile, offensive-minded defenseman (+ skating, puck moving and carrying, recovery ability; - hockey sense, positional integrity, pairing limitations)
Weak #2 or Strong #4 LD Maatta - Defensive-minded, two-way defenseman (+ hockey sense, "pair-ability"; - shot, high-end skill set to lead a pairing)
#4/#5 LD/RD Daley - Mobile, offensive defenseman (+ puck carrying, + puck skills; - positional integrity)
#4/#5 LD Dumoulin - Defensive-minded defenseman (+ positional integrity; - puck skills)
#5/6 RD Lovejoy - Mobile, defensive-minded defenseman (+ skating, + support rush, + stick positioning; - puck skills, strength)
#6/7 LD Cole - Physical defenseman (+ competitor, hitting; - hockey sense, passing, "pair-ability")

Two bonafide top-4 guys, not a ton of puck skills, just kind of a mish-mash of pieces. The saving grace is the synergy that Dumo-Lovejoy have shown. Without that, we wouldn't be in playoff contention I don't believe...

Doesn't look awful though, I mean, Paul Martin and Niskanen, what were they? Were they that big a loss?

What do you see as Pouliet's potential?

Both were top four d-men that we lost. Thus this mess.

Pouliot has second pairing upside I think. But I would have liked to have seen more progression over the last 12 months to be honest.

[mikey]

@mikey, are you going to the April 9th game in Philly? Thinking about going to a game, it's been a few years. Of course, also want to go to the Eagles-Stillers game this year.

Yeah, I don't see why I wouldn't unless tickets are like $75 for some reason because it's like a play-in game or some nonsense. But I doubt Philly is in it then.

So yeah, I should be there. If you go, let me know, we'll go door to door selling "Make America Great Again" gear...or grab a beer, whichever you prefer...

[shafnutz05]

So yeah, I should be there. If you go, let me know, we'll go door to door selling "Make America Great Again" gear...or grab a beer, whichever you prefer...

I'll definitely let you know. My wife will be close to recovered from her upcoming foot surgery so I will have to take advantage of the cabin fever by that point

[Craig]

I have t watched martin this year, but even last year+ version of "i suck if i play more than 21 minutes" martin paired with maatta on the second pair would completely change the pens defense group into something pretty strong.

Thats also a good example of that 2/3/4 thing. Martin would be a 3 on this team...except when letang was out, he'd be a 1.

[NTP66]

lol

https://twitter.com/davelozo/status/692561598075015168

[columbia]

I don't get it.

[NTP66]

It shows up differently when you embed it. Here you go, for full context:

[Craig]

I don't get it.

You have to assume that crosby thinks ovechkin will not have to sit out a game.

...i think. I dont really get it either.

[MR25]

Crosby would be throwing his phone into the river because he likely doesn't want to play the ASG, and at the time of that tweet, Ovechkin's replacement hadn't been named yet.