What If The Pens Dont Make The Playoffs?

Postby **Guinness** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:05 pm

I'm totally okay with them not making the playoffs. I'm so... meh... about this team right now that I'd almost rather scrap the year and see what happens next.

Better than losing to the Isles or Caps. I just... barf.

Postby **Trip McNeely** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:24 pm

Guys like Chris Kreider get drafted in the first round in the first year of eligibility for the draft.

Oops , not sure why I thought he was a FA

Postby **Sarcastic** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:40 pm

Yeah, fans will come back. Maybe not all and understandably so. But each year brings new hope. Penguins will need to do a roster makeover and it will be hard, as we'll have to get rid of Kunitz and Dupuis' contracts, while rounding up top 6 with quality players. That won't be easy. Who's going to take those two? If they're still here next year, they'll not only take money off the big pile, but also valuable spots in the lineup. I don't like this roster. I can see why we're not scoring, but I thought that MJ would at least provide a strong system yet we seem to fall apart like under Bylsma. It's players and coaching. On D, I would only bring back Letang, Pouliot, Mattaa and Cole. I don't care about the other guys. Trade them. Bring in a couple new guys. Malkin has no one to play with after the Neal trade. This team is horribly mismanaged. Is there any significant help in terms of skilled youth coming next year, other than Mattaa? So back to the FA market because I don't see how much we have to offer in trade. This team is in more trouble than I think a lot of people realize.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:13 am

Looking at available UFA's for this offseason, there arent a whole lot of decent options. No clear cut top 6 guys that can improve our offense and there isnt a top pairing guy to replace Martin.

I just dont see an offseason where this team can retool quickly without making major trades.
The team has more than enough to fill the net as is. Better managed top 6 is probably more of a solution.

Better managed amongst the current players?

Postby **PFiDC** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:28 am

I'm totally okay with them not making the playoffs. I'm so... meh... about this team right now that I'd almost rather scrap the year and see what happens next.

Better than losing to the Isles or Caps. I just... barf.

I can take an Isles loss. The caps? That will be tough. Although beating the pens right now isn't difficult so it really isn't an accomplishment.

Postby **Morkle** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:13 am

While thinking about trading Crosby/Letang/Malkin/MAF is absurd, how can anyone expect to provide any of those players with a supporting cast with that much cap room spent on those 4?

That's where I think the biggest win happens when you trade a player of that ilk. Sure, you're going to get draft picks and some players back in the deal - but the value gained in the cap space allows you to support the remaining players.

If you're trading all of your draft picks, you're relying on FA and trades to support those players, obviously that strategy hasn't been a winning one.

Postby **MR25** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:18 am

Sure, you'd have the cap space, but you'll never find a player or set of players to truly replace what those guys bring.

The problem with trading one of them is that you no longer have one of them.

Postby **large garlic** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:26 am

While thinking about trading Crosby/Letang/Malkin/MAF is absurd, how can anyone expect to provide any of those players with a supporting cast with that much cap room spent on those 4?

That's where I think the biggest win happens when you trade a player of that ilk. Sure, you're going to get draft picks and some players back in the deal - but the value gained in the cap space allows you to support the remaining players.

If you're trading all of your draft picks, you're relying on FA and trades to support those players, obviously that strategy hasn't been a winning one.

I was thinking about this. It is tempting to trade one of the big four, but ultimately I think the right play is to accept that the team will go through a 2-3 year re-tooling phase, where they'll be a borderline playoff team (like this year). In that period, keep all of our picks, make a shrewd FA signing or two (i.e. undervalued guys)--no big signings. Then, in 2-3 years the core guys will be in their late 20s, early 30s (less productive, but still very good), there might be a couple draftees who are breaking into the lineup, and the cap will have gone up, so the Pens will have more room to make a big splash via FA or trade.

Postby **Solidsnake** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:04 pm

While thinking about trading Crosby/Letang/Malkin/MAF is absurd, how can anyone expect to provide any of those players with a supporting cast with that much cap room spent on those 4?

That's where I think the biggest win happens when you trade a player of that ilk. Sure, you're going to get draft picks and some players back in the deal - but the value gained in the cap space allows you to support the remaining players.

If you're trading all of your draft picks, you're relying on FA and trades to support those players, obviously that strategy hasn't been a winning one.

The definition of insanity...

Postby **TheHammer24** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:15 pm

I haven't read this thread, but it provides a nice platform to make a point that I've wanted to make. If you created a graph with dollars-spent per player on the x axis, and ability on the y axis, and then you plotted every player on the graph, you wouldn't get a constant slope. You'd probably get a fairly shallow slope to start (the sub 1.5 million players are all pretty crappy), followed by a gradual upward slope, but it would conclude with a steep upward slope, in my opinion. The best players -- the elite players in the league -- are worth way more per dollar than the bad to middle-of-the-road ones.

My point is clearing a Letang or Malkin or Crosby would yield $7 million+ in cap relief, but you wouldn't replace that with the same skill.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:21 pm

I haven't read this thread, but it provides a nice platform to make a point that I've wanted to make. If you created a graph with dollars-spent per player on the x axis, and ability on the y axis, and then you plotted every player on the graph, you wouldn't get a constant slope. You'd probably get a fairly shallow slope to start (the sub 1.5 million players are all pretty crappy), followed by a gradual upward slope, but it would conclude with a steep upward slope, in my opinion. The best players -- the elite players in the league -- are worth way more per dollar than the bad to middle-of-the-road ones.

My point is clearing a Letang or Malkin or Crosby would yield $7 million+ in cap relief, but you wouldn't replace that with the same skill.

I agree. If you dump a superstar you cant just go out in free agency every year and overspead on a Top 6 forward or Top 4 defenseman. Very rarely do they meet expectations for those lofty deals they sign.

The Pens really need to take a step back this offseason and get some of the bad contracts off the books. You aren't in win now mode when you are fighting for a playoff spot with 3 games left, but you arent in total rebuild mode either. This team needs to get back to some semblance of fiscal responsibility / cap management.

Postby **NAN** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:25 pm

Which one of you retards are on the Pitt board saying to trade Crosby to the winner of the first pick so we can pick McDavid? And actually thinks the other team would do that.

Postby **Craig** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:41 pm

I wouldnt be surprised if a team would take that.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:49 pm

I wouldnt be surprised if a team would take that.

I would. The best thing that he has going for him besides his potential is that he isnt making 8.7M a year.

Postby **cadams** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:56 pm

At this point in Sid's career no way a team does that. Ignoring his salary, he could be considered injury prone. There is no single player in the NHL that would cause any team to trade the #1 or even the #2 pick away for.

Postby **Faubert5** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:24 pm

Which one of you retards are on the Pitt board saying to trade Crosby to the winner of the first pick so we can pick McDavid? And actually thinks the other team would do that.

Where's Milbury when you need him?

Postby **TheHammer24** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:48 pm

Ha, I think you definitely take that deal if you're Buffalo.

Postby **Pavel Bure** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:32 pm

Ha, I think you definitely take that deal if you're Buffalo.

Yeah simply the money that Crosby would generate for a franchise would be tempting for anyone.

Postby **grunthy** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:42 pm

Hypothetically, if the team that has the 1st overall pick and they came to you, as the GM, and said we will take Crosby or malkin. you chose who you give us. Who would you send, assuming you accepted?

Postby **MR25** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:43 pm

While thinking about trading Crosby/Letang/Malkin/MAF is absurd, how can anyone expect to provide any of those players with a supporting cast with that much cap room spent on those 4?

That's where I think the biggest win happens when you trade a player of that ilk. Sure, you're going to get draft picks and some players back in the deal - but the value gained in the cap space allows you to support the remaining players.

If you're trading all of your draft picks, you're relying on FA and trades to support those players, obviously that strategy hasn't been a winning one.

Adam Gretz tweeted this, in regards to the "too much cap space in players" sentiment:

Pens' cap space in top 5 highest paid players vs. previous Cup winners:

PIT's top-5 cap hits currently take up 51% of their cap space.

08 DET: 55%
09 PIT: 49%
10 CHI: 46%
11 BOS: 44%
12 LA: 44%
13 CHI: 51%
14 LA: 49%

I don't think it's necessarily how much cap space left over, but how it's used.

Postby **TheHammer24** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:00 pm

Totally agree.

Postby **Trip McNeely** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:32 pm

Rossi sensationalism alert: basically eulogizing the Pens on The Fan, Burkle will sell the team if they don't make the playoffs, Pens won't sell out playoff games even if they make it, etc etc.

Postby **NAN** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:41 pm

Rossi sensationalism alert: basically eulogizing the Pens on The Fan, Burkle will sell the team if they don't make the playoffs, Pens won't sell out playoff games even if they make it, etc etc.

I used to be able to stand him, but he is such a turd anymore.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:55 pm

Rossi sensationalism alert: basically eulogizing the Pens on The Fan, Burkle will sell the team if they don't make the playoffs, Pens won't sell out playoff games even if they make it, etc etc.
I used to be able to stand him, but he is such a turd anymore.

To be honest I dont think that is far off base. I dont see Lemieux / Burkle hanging onto the team much longer. They have everything in place with regards to the old arena site and are pretty close to maximizing the value of the franchise. Sell high while Malkin and Crosby are still in their prime.

Postby **NAN** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:57 pm

Rossi sensationalism alert: basically eulogizing the Pens on The Fan, Burkle will sell the team if they don't make the playoffs, Pens won't sell out playoff games even if they make it, etc etc.
I used to be able to stand him, but he is such a turd anymore.
To be honest I dont think that is far off base. I dont see Lemieux / Burkle hanging onto the team much longer. They have everything in place with regards to the old arena site and are pretty close to maximizing the value of the franchise. Sell high while Malkin and Crosby are still in their prime.

I can understand that. I didn't hear Rossi, but based on the OP, it is like they are going to jump if they miss the playoffs. I don't believe that to be the case at all.

That is him just being a turd.