How The Pens Got Here?

Postby **doublewinder** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:41 pm

It really feels odd that this season reminds me of the late 90s, we had Jagr, but no $$$, and Patrick's drafts were awful (Sven Buthcenson?).

You'd think with the salary cap era, the Pens would have benefited not having to sell off players like before.

Instead though, it seems (and please correct me if I am wrong) but in a nutshell the Crosby/Malkin era can be summarized:

08/09: The Glory Years
10: The onset of bad defense play/coaching+MAF struggles+fatigue from the prior two finals.
11: Injuries, no way that team was making a run.
12: Immaturity/bad coaching/MAF struggles ruining that season
13: Bad coaching/Immaturity ruins that run
14: Waaay too long past due date on Shero/Bylsma/depth

to now, 2015 where the Pens are not a contender.
Their "window" was 2008-2013.
The first two years we made the finals.
I'm willing to give a mulligan for 2010 and 2011 given injuries and the fact that no team in this era makes 3 cups in a row.

2012 and 2013 were the years where we blew it, and now, the window is closed, at least for this season because of:

HORRIBLE Drafting/Developement on par with the late 90s.
That is what it seems, in a nutshell, has us now where we aren't close talent wise to the 08-12/13 bunch.

So coming full circle, the late 90s were Jagr+scrubs due to $$$ and bad drafting.
2015=Crosby/Malkin/MAF/Letang+injuries+no depth (again) due to primarily HORRIBLE player development.

It seems this organization outside of a few luck and can't miss picks, cannot develop good support players. That's what is most upsetting; the salary cap meant we didn't have to $ell Malking/Crosby to big markets; but it didn't save us from poor management.

Postby **doublewinder** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:42 pm

Is my assessment accurate?

Postby **DigitalGypsy66** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:19 pm

Yeah, I think that's pretty close to what's going on.

Our salary lineup is too top heavy with Crosby, Letang, and Malkin. If any of those three get hurt or slump, the Pens are in trouble.

We need more production out of entry level contract players - like Malkin and Letang on the Cup team. But with the cupboard relatively bare with forward prospects (and not going to get better soon), there isn't much NHL-ready skill in the system on that entry level contract. Kapanen and Sundqvist might be it, folks.

Postby **large garlic** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:34 pm

That seems pretty accurate to me as well. As others have pointed out elsewhere, though, it would make a bit of difference if Maatta and Bennett hadn't been wrecked by injuries/whatever else is going on with Bennett. Prior to the season, we were all imagining Bennett being a productive top-6 forward and Maatta being a productive top-4 d-man on entry-level contracts.

The other thing this group has going in its favor is that current ownership will spend money, the cap will go up, and the big 4 are signed relatively long-term. That should mean the Pens, if they make some shrewd FA acquisitions, can re-tool and return to contender status more quickly than just by relying on the draft.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:01 pm

I see it like this:

On June 9, 2009 the Penguins went into the third period of game seven leading 2-0 thanks to two Max Talbot goals and would be playing the rest of the game without Sidney Crosby except one shift. The collective fan base said "God, please let the Penguins win this." Unfortunately, God was busy that night but Satan only took 12 shifts in game 7, giving him plenty of free time, and decided to collect on our pleas. The franchise has been paying for it ever since.

Postby **Solidsnake** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:34 pm

How many of you were pens fans during those years? What % of you watched all the games? What % of you were expecting better results?

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:10 pm

How many of you were pens fans during those years? What % of you watched all the games? What % of you were expecting better results?

during the last five years...?

Postby **count2infinity** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:12 pm

I don't think weenie knows the legend of doublewinder.

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:13 pm

I do not; he was before my time.

Postby **offsides** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:20 pm

How many of you were pens fans during those years? What % of you watched all the games? What % of you were expecting better results?

I have been listening and watching every Pens game I could since the mid 70's. I even bought that stupid Pens-vision so I could watch more games. I have pretty much seen it all and pretty much agree with the OP. Team is too top heavy with no good young forwards coming along. Basically bad player drafting and development with thrown in bad overpriced veteran signings.

Postby **Gabe** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:19 pm

I even bought that stupid Pens-vision so I could watch more games.

What is this Pens-vision that you speak of?

Postby **the wicked child** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:45 pm

I see it like this:

On June 9, 2009 the Penguins went into the third period of game seven leading 2-0 thanks to two Max Talbot goals and would be playing the rest of the game without Sidney Crosby except one shift. The collective fan base said "God, please let the Penguins win this." Unfortunately, God was busy that night but Satan only took 12 shifts in game 7, giving him plenty of free time, and decided to collect on our pleas. The franchise has been paying for it ever since.

This is brilliant... And scarily plausible.

Postby **offsides** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:12 pm

I even bought that stupid Pens-vision so I could watch more games.
What is this Pens-vision that you speak of?

I can't remember exactly when it started and ended, but it didn't last long. I think it was in the late 70's or early 80's. Back in the day, all Pen's games were not televised and the Pens started a cable channel that would carry all the games and extra Pens related programming, but you had to pay extra for it. It was a bust since the teams were pretty bad and not many people got it. I'm guessing I was one of the few.

Postby **doublewinder** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:16 pm

We need more production out of entry level contract players - like Malkin and Letang on the Cup team. But with the cupboard relatively bare with forward prospects (and not going to get better soon), there isn't much NHL-ready skill in the system on that entry level contract. Kapanen and Sundqvist might be it, folks.

Yes, that's a big problem.
We have no young forwards bringing energy, hunger, depth, and low costs.
Instead we have expensive vets complacent with their big contracts and job security because no youth exists to unseat them.

THIS is the culture they have created.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:12 pm

I even bought that stupid Pens-vision so I could watch more games.
What is this Pens-vision that you speak of?
I can't remember exactly when it started and ended, but it didn't last long. I think it was in the late 70's or early 80's. Back in the day, all Pen's games were not televised and the Pens started a cable channel that would carry all the games and extra Pens related programming, but you had to pay extra for it. It was a bust since the teams were pretty bad and not many people got it. I'm guessing I was one of the few.

I remember the Pens having PPV games in the early 90s when Marino and Baldwin owned the team. I actually remember a plan by one of those two turds to start their own cable channel to carry Pens games.

Postby **relantel** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:13 pm

I see it like this:

On June 9, 2009 the Penguins went into the third period of game seven leading 2-0 thanks to two Max Talbot goals and would be playing the rest of the game without Sidney Crosby except one shift. The collective fan base said "God, please let the Penguins win this." Unfortunately, God was busy that night but Satan only took 12 shifts in game 7, giving him plenty of free time, and decided to collect on our pleas. The franchise has been paying for it ever since.

Karma. Sold our soul to the company store.

Postby **Pavel Bure** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:47 pm

I tend to agree that the window is closed. The last gasp to fix this team and get a cup was Iginla/Morrow. That team had the veteran leadership, it had the playoff mentality, the goaltending just fell apart. Pair that with a highly disciplined/motivated Boston team and we all had that empty feeling.

Since then the team has been forcing it. When I heard the Pens had traded their first round pick I was excited, then I saw it was Perron and was confused. A first round pick once got the Pens Hossa for peats sake. Now we settled for a guy that wasn't special on the Blues or Oilers. Wtf. Makes no sense. Same with trading for Lovejoy. WTF he's the same 3rd pairing guy he was when he left except now he's 31. It's trading for the sake of trading.

The team is broken, it's the Sharks/Canucks situations of the past decade. Holding onto something. That isn't there anymore and trying to force a square peg into a round hole. I'd rather them blow it up and retool for a year than keep forcing it and handing out bad contracts. So frustrating as a friend.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:00 pm

I tend to agree that the window is closed. The last gasp to fix this team and get a cup was Iginla/Morrow. That team had the veteran leadership, it had the playoff mentality, the goaltending just fell apart. Pair that with a highly disciplined/motivated Boston team and we all had that empty feeling.

Since then the team has been forcing it. When I heard the Pens had traded their first round pick I was excited, then I saw it was Perron and was confused. A first round pick once got the Pens Hossa for peats sake. Now we settled for a guy that wasn't special on the Blues or Oilers. Wtf. Makes no sense. Same with trading for Lovejoy. WTF he's the same 3rd pairing guy he was when he left except now he's 31. It's trading for the sake of trading.

The team is broken, it's the Sharks/Canucks situations of the past decade. Holding onto something. That isn't there anymore and trying to force a square peg into a round hole. I'd rather them blow it up and retool for a year than keep forcing it and handing out bad contracts. So frustrating as a friend.

I agree. It just comes down to how do you rebuild?

YouTube · Postby **EdOlczyk** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:25 pm

Started from the top,
Now they are here

Postby **meecrofilm** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:29 pm

I tend to agree that the window is closed. The last gasp to fix this team and get a cup was Iginla/Morrow. That team had the veteran leadership, it had the playoff mentality, the goaltending just fell apart. Pair that with a highly disciplined/motivated Boston team and we all had that empty feeling.

Huh? Vokoun was lights out after taking over for Fleury that year.

Postby **Pavel Bure** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:39 pm

I tend to agree that the window is closed. The last gasp to fix this team and get a cup was Iginla/Morrow. That team had the veteran leadership, it had the playoff mentality, the goaltending just fell apart. Pair that with a highly disciplined/motivated Boston team and we all had that empty feeling.
Huh? Vokoun was lights out after taking over for Fleury that year.

That was borrowed time, we all knew it. He turned back into a pumpkin against Boston.

Postby **Tico Rick** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:47 pm

Started from the top,
Now they are here

That song pops into my head every time I see the title of this thread!

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:18 pm

Madden mentioned this on his show today and it's something I definitely noticed as well. In practice this week the Penguins moved guys around on the power play and had Sid working down low where he belongs. How many times did you see Sid down low on the power play against Ottawa? Maybe once? He rotated over to that half-wall position at every opportunity, despite the fact that he sucks there. Bylsma let the inmates run the asylum and this coaching staff either doesn't have the balls or the confidence in their own job security to enact repercussions against star players who don't do as instructed. That's a major problem with this team and there's no easy way to fix it.

Postby **shmenguin** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:23 pm

Whoever is deciding that Sid should play on the right wall needs a slap in the face. It's the worst part about what's going on right now, since it's the eaisest to fix.

Postby **shafnutz05** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:26 pm

Whoever is deciding that Sid should play on the right wall needs a slap in the face. It's the worst part about what's going on right now, since it's the eaisest to fix.

Eh, he's only been there for a couple of games, I'm sure they will figure it out quickly