Arizona Coyotes Lost $34.5 Million in 2014-15

Postby **Freddy Rumsen** » Fri May 15, 2015 12:18 pm

http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2 ... iscal-year

It is beyond time for that team to head north to Quebec City.

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Fri May 15, 2015 12:25 pm

putting a franchise in Arizona is as dumb as it can get in terms of top tier pro sports leagues.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Fri May 15, 2015 12:36 pm

Arizona is one of the biggest growing populations in the country over the last several years, right? Maybe if they put the arena in a better place...it's like 40 minutes outside of Phoenix on the wrong side...it'd be like if the Penguins played in New Stanton...

But yes, the future of the Coyotes seems pretty bleak...

Postby **Craig** » Fri May 15, 2015 12:48 pm

putting a franchise in Arizona is as dumb as it can get in terms of top tier pro sports leagues.

I assume its better than montana would be.

Postby **columbia** » Fri May 15, 2015 12:52 pm

Hockey in these non-traditional markets is interesting. I know someone who grew up in Atlanta and his father is a big honcho in the youth hockey circles there. So grew up playing and always being around the game. I asked him if he was bummed when the Thrashers moved and he replied, "No, my family is from Michigan and we're Red Wings fans."

Maybe these markets will get over that factor, but I'm skeptical.

Postby **Craig** » Fri May 15, 2015 12:57 pm

Gotta win. Tampa is a healthy market when they arent in the basement. Basically equal or better than places like pittsburgh.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Fri May 15, 2015 1:09 pm

Atlanta has a fairly unusual population, aiui, when it comes to supporting sports franchises...columbia alluded to it on an individual scale above...

Postby **columbia** » Fri May 15, 2015 1:18 pm

Does the league think that it's worth it to wait around for a full generation for there to be a truly local/organic interest in the game and the hometown teams in these cities? The NHL seems to have thought so in the past. To a certain extent, that's what happened in Pittsburgh; although I'd say that divine intervention played more of a role in regard to them staying in the 80s.

Is that the right decision/strategy? Maybe....

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Fri May 15, 2015 1:25 pm

That's the investment they appear to be making...but they do often leave me wanting more on the marketing front, I've never seen the NHL marketed in a sufficient means...the grassroots stuff is good and all, but sometimes you have to do more to appeal to a specific group, say, males aged 18-54...show off your product at its best...

But I'm wandering aimlessly off the trail here...meanwhile, back in Glendale...I'm guessing the City will try to get out of this deal between now and 2018 (or whenever they have that ability, I think it's five years from the agreement point or a certain amount of losses accrued or some such...) - which might cause them to be a nomadic franchise for a bit because I'm guessing expansion will come to a head before the Yotes are moved...a lot of moving pieces...

Postby **Avyran** » Fri May 15, 2015 4:17 pm

They also need a Stamkos (or Lecavalier), or a Getzlaf/Perry, or a Gretzky, or a Lemieux/Crosby, or a Thornton/Marleau...

Yeah, they needed to get McDavid or Eichel there pretty badly to quickly fix it.

Postby **Freddy Rumsen** » Fri May 15, 2015 5:29 pm

Does the league think that it's worth it to wait around for a full generation for there to be a truly local/organic interest in the game and the hometown teams in these cities? The NHL seems to have thought so in the past. To a certain extent, that's what happened in Pittsburgh; although I'd say that divine intervention played more of a role in regard to them staying in the 80s.

Is that the right decision/strategy? Maybe....

There are a number of cases where the NHL quickly gave up on a market.

Oakland, Denver, Kansas City, Cleveland, Atlanta x 2, etc...

Postby **Factorial** » Fri May 15, 2015 5:37 pm

Atlanta has a fairly unusual population, aiui, when it comes to supporting sports franchises...columbia alluded to it on an individual scale above...

Having lived there that is exactly what went on. Anyone interested in hockey didn't grow up there and had no interest in the Thrashers.

Postby **dodint** » Sun May 17, 2015 10:41 am

They had Gretzky.

I loathe the Coyotes. Move now.

Postby **Craig** » Sun May 17, 2015 10:50 am

its a shame their best player offensively or defensively is a defenseman. No matter what he does its going to be tough to market around him.

Postby **MR25** » Sun May 17, 2015 5:52 pm

They had Gretzky.

I loathe the Coyotes. Move now.

Huh?

He was a terrible coach.

Postby **dodint** » Sun May 17, 2015 7:55 pm

It was a response to Avyran. Whether Gretzky was good or not, his name did squat to raise the profile of that franchise. It's garbage, throw it away.

Postby **MR25** » Sun May 17, 2015 10:44 pm

Was Gretzky playing on the ice?

Because otherwise, I'm not sure your point really has any merit. He was referring specifically to on-ice talent.

Postby **dodint** » Sun May 17, 2015 11:32 pm

lol

okay.gif

You're right. They're only two generational talents away from relevance. Quick, trade Crosby and Malkin for Mike Smith. For the charity.

Postby **Avyran** » Sun May 17, 2015 11:54 pm

lol

okay.gif

You're right. They're only two generational talents away from relevance. Quick, trade Crosby and Malkin for Mike Smith. For the charity.

Nah, dodint, Mr25's got my meaning correct. Gretzky as a coach is not going to fill the seats... nor would Lemieux the owner. That's partially why he came out of retirement multiple times (it's more complicated than that, I know).

I don't think Phoenix is going to survive, to be honest. They've struggled & their arena is not in a favorable place. During their years of success, though, they averaged around 15000 people... close to the same as Pittsburgh did in 2005-06 with Crosby & Malkin's names to pull the team out of X-Gen. The 'Yotes' highest draft pick ever was Kyle Turris at pick #3, the same year of Patrick Kane & JVR - and Thomas Hickey was chosen next by LA. Their second highest was #5 with Blake Wheeler, the same year as Ovi & Malkin - the next pick was Al Montoya, to NYR. Next was OEL, at #6 in 2009 - next up were Nazem Kadri of TOR & Scott Glennie of DAL. Not exactly money drafts.

Again, dodint, I'm not saying they're worth saving... just that they haven't received a franchise-making player like Tampa (Stamkos / Lecavalier) or Anaheim (Kariya, Getzlaf/Perry) have, etc. Would things be different? Hell if I know. I just know they haven't had that chance.

Postby **MR25** » Mon May 18, 2015 12:33 am

I don't even really know what you're trying to say at this point, dodint, except that you're completely off point.

Postby **King Colby** » Mon May 18, 2015 8:00 am

The NHL has a huge interest in keeping the Yotes there for TV purposes. They are the only team in the Southwest really, and if they lose them the market goes away.

Maybe instead of expanding to Vegas, move Phoenix there?

Postby **shoeshine boy** » Mon May 18, 2015 8:50 am

Hockey in these non-traditional markets is interesting. I know someone who grew up in Atlanta and his father is a big honcho in the youth hockey circles there. So grew up playing and always being around the game. I asked him if he was bummed when the Thrashers moved and he replied, "No, my family is from Michigan and we're Red Wings fans."

Maybe these markets will get over that factor, but I'm skeptical.

this is pretty much it. I am born and raised and still live in Atlanta. I played street hockey at the age of 6 in a municipal league. when my parents moved to a different county I had to switch to softball and didn't pick up ice hockey until my early 30's. after the Flames left I didn't really get back into the NHL until Jagr came along and he and Mario made me a Pens fan for life. when the Thrashers came along I had season tickets the first few years. I stopped getting season tickets because I started playing hockey and just didn't have as much time to attend games. I still continued to go when I could but not nearly as much.
the Pens remained my #1 team and I kept waiting for the Thrashers to give me a reason to supplant them but it never happened. they came close when they had a young Kovalchuk and Heatley but then Heatley had to crash his expensive sports car on a curvy road and kill a teammate. he was never the same player after that. when the new owners took over it was clear that they didn't give a crap about hockey. the Thrashers were a throw-in to get the basketball team.
imo the Thrashers, even under original ownership did very little to try to convert transplants or even make fans out of natives. when they first came along it took them several years to partner with the youth travel teams to have a Junior Thrashers and they didn't put one dime into trying to grow the sport at the recreational level by trying to build more rinks around the metro.
non-traditional markets have to do 2 things to be successful: win and grow the sport in the community. you may never get the transplants but if you give their kids something to be proud of from their native city you might convert that generation.

Postby **Arturs Irbe** » Mon May 18, 2015 11:11 am

The NHL has a huge interest in keeping the Yotes there for TV purposes. They are the only team in the Southwest really, and if they lose them the market goes away.

Maybe instead of expanding to Vegas, move Phoenix there?

It may make more sense for the Coyotes to move to Seattle. There is some concern whether the people involved in Seattle could pay the $500 million expansion fee.

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/hock ... too-hefty/

The NHL would probably be more likely to get that fee from Las Vegas. Both cities would fit in the Pacific division also.

Postby **Beveridge** » Mon May 18, 2015 12:39 pm

I am beyond prepared to adopt Seattle as my WC team. This needs to happen.

Postby **NAN** » Mon May 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Sucks. I understand why they put it there, they need to grow their market in order to compete with the other leagues, but I think they screwed this one up by having the arena in an area where the population isn't centered. And outside a handful of years just didn't have success on the ice.

And this who Las Vegas expansion is even worse IMO.