Hockey Randomness

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Sun May 20, 2018 1:54 pm

Hossa was much, much better defensively than Robitaille...but wasn't as good offensively and wasn't the best at his position for any length of time like Luc was...

That said, Robitaille was never considered quite as important to a team as Hossa was in his prime...I know Hossa was never a serious Hart candidate, but he at least received some token votes...Robitaille never got a single one in his entire career, pretty impressive for a guy who was a First- or Second-Team All-Star eight times in his career, including every year from 1987 to 1993.

Shanahan is a better comparison...Shanny has the intangible of being a power forward, Hossa has the semi-intangible of being a terrific two-way player...that's their value add (that Robitaille doesn't offer, but blows them away in terms of goal scoring)...

I think I would have a pretty hard time separating - from an all-time perspective: Hossa, Shanahan, Zetterberg (who did spend a lot of time at center) and Elias...

Shanny is already in...I don't think you can take just one of Hossa or Zetterberg, I think one gets the other in...but yet, I'm not sure Elias is...

A better career comparison for Robitaille is probably someone like Michel Goulet...or even Paul Kariya...

Postby **meow** » Sun May 20, 2018 3:23 pm

Hossa was better defensively than Datsyuk.

Not accepting questions at this time

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Sun May 20, 2018 3:32 pm

From a pure and complete defensive standpoint, I'd agree with that actually. Datsyuk was a puckjacker, particularly in the NZ...but he wasn't a complete defensive player in the same way that Zetterberg was...Zetterberg not as skilled of a pickpocket, but a more complete defensive player. Datsyuk was a highlight reel in every way really...which is pretty crazy...but his goals, his penalty shots, his defensive plays, they were all highlight reels...if you didn't know any better, you'd swear he was the best player in history...

But I think you make a good point...

Postby **Gaucho** » Sun May 20, 2018 3:42 pm

First ballot HoFer

Absolutely.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:15 am

So, "first ballot" is really a baseball term, but I get how it's being used here...I'm not sure that he really screams "first ballot" if better players get in the way, no one would bat an eyelash I don't think, if he doesn't make it right away...

So I don't know how it's going to go because he's not actually retiring...he's just not playing...he can't say retire because it would ruin the Hawks further with cap recapture stuff...

But you got guys like Iginla, Jagr who are clearly better...

Martin St. Louis isn't in yet...is Joe Thornton done? He's clearly better.

I don't think they are HOFers, but Henrik and Daniel Sedin are going in at the same time, so that's two spots of four in some season...maybe Pavel Datsyuk...

And then what if they try to "fix" something that they left behind before: J.C. Tremblay (who I think died already, so they won't have that to overcome at least) or Pierre Turgeon...

I'm just saying, Jagr, Brodeur, those are "get out of my way" guys...Hossa is an "all right" HOFer...

Postby **count2infinity** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:36 am

There should be an elite wing of the HoF. The HoF of the HoF.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:37 am

It's getting very watered down...Housley, Andreychuk...blah...

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon May 21, 2018 12:52 pm

Found this oldie but a goodie I had forgotten about in the thread about Canada's 25 years of Cup futility. Someone commented "at least Ottawa got to score a Cup-winning goal"

Postby **meow** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:00 pm

Give me Hossa over MSL every day and twice on Sunday.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:24 pm

Huh? No. ...huh?

Postby **Gaucho** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:28 pm

I'm surprised you disagree.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:35 pm

Not only should that lean MSL's way, it shouldn't be "Hossa for days" or whatever...if Hossa was a 10 defensively, MSL was a good 8 or 9...and if MSL was a 10 offensively, Hossa was a 7 or 7.5...

Hossa's only real strong, elite point seasons came when he wasn't the best player on his line...him with Kovalchuk, and then him as the second or even third wheel (if you're just looking at offensive talent) on the Pizza line...

Great player and all, but I think he's getting a lot of miles out of something from one of yous...and I don't know what it is...

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:37 pm

TIL Hossa never won any individual awards during his career. The closest he ever came was the Calder in his rookie season.

Postby **Gaucho** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:38 pm

^ boo these mans.

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:48 pm

Hossa has like one year where he was a true top tier player. And it was during the dark days of the nhl talent pool. That doesn’t seem like a HoF player.

Top tier is rarified air, folks. Don’t yell at me.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:48 pm

Individual awards?!?! What do people think happened? Hossa was never close to any individual awards...he was a 2nd team all-star RW with Detroit, that's it...

MSL, a peer, won two Art Ross Trophies, a Hart, was a first- or second-team all-star at RW (tougher competition, historically, than LW) five times...1st in assists twice, finished top-5 four times, 1st in points twice, finished top-5 four times, even finished top-5 in goals twice...top-3 in voting for MVP three times...

There's a better debate between MSL vs. Iginla than MSL vs. Hossa...

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:50 pm

It should be noted I'm agreeing with mikey here--Martin St. Louis was elite during his career. Hossa was not.

Postby **Lemon Berry Lobster** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:50 pm

Imagine the kind of point MSL could put up now that the league is trending more towards speed and skill...especially on that TBL teams.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:00 pm

Hossa, to be fair, did a great job of shutting down offensive dynamo Bryan Berard...

Postby **meow** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:02 pm

Hossa was a better hockey player than MSL.

Postby **Silentom** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:04 pm

Bad take imo.

Postby **Lemon Berry Lobster** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:08 pm

He can stand upright in a van, leave him alone...

Postby **meow** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:09 pm

Your face can’t stand up in a van

Postby **Lemon Berry Lobster** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:16 pm

I am not Krang, you are correct.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon May 21, 2018 2:25 pm

Hossa was a better hockey player than MSL.

Better how? You can't keep posting the same thing and then add that gay Mr. Clean gif underneath of it and think that's gospel...I demand a response by 2:11 pm ET today or your point will be considered null and void and I will be deemed the victor...

EDIT: I forgot time stuff cannot be used on this board...probably because of Hossa...