Hockey Randomness

Postby **nocera** » Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:32 pm

Carcillo was an dadhole on the ice when he played. Apparently he was an even bigger dadhole off the ice. Now he retired and what's to play holier than thou. **** yourself, Daniel. Thanks for that game 6 fight.

Postby **Lemon Berry Lobster** » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:10 pm

Tiffoli to Vancouver.

Postby **mac5155** » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:52 pm

Pretty good trade for Vancouver honestly IMO.

Postby **MR25** » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:29 pm

My only thing with this trade is:

The Canucks aren't "one player away" from a Cup. Toffoli is a UFA at the end of the season. He could sign in Van. He might not. But if you're a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 5 years and aren't even guaranteed a spot in it this year, is this a move your GM really needs to make? To give up assets for a guy who isn't even guaranteed to help your team in the future?

Unless you're expecting your team to suck next year and you have a lottery-protected pick dangling out there it makes sense to at least try to make the playoffs this year so the pick is used. But it's just a weird move to make for a non-contender.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:30 am

Buccigross made a - predictably - horrific list of the top 20 American players of all time...

His: https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/286 ... s-rank-all

Some spoiler: 1. Kane; 2. Matthews; 3. Modano; 4. Lafontaine; 5. Modano...20. Mark Johnson

My much better - though not perfect - take on it...so long as I'm not missing something obvious...

1. Chelios
2. Kane
3. Leetch
4. Howe
5. Hull (?)
6. Modano
7. Brimsek
8. Langway (?)
9. LeClair
10. Tkachuk
11. R.Suter
12. Lafontaine
13. Roenick
14. Rafalski
15. Wheeler
16. Barrasso
17. Housley
18. Quick
19. Mullen
20. G.Suter
21. Kessel
22. J.Carlson

Postby **Gaucho** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:36 am

1. Bryan Rust

Postby **faftorial** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:42 am

1. Bryan Rust

Postby **meow** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:56 am

Tom Barrasso is the beat American goalie of all time? Get bent

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:56 am

If you're talking to me, I have Brimsek way, way ahead of him...

Postby **meow** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:16 am

The World War One hero? Get bent

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:37 am

World War II. Brimsek was likely the best goalie in history through to some point in the 1960's or so when Plante and Hall probably surpassed him. I guess Sawchuk too...

Brimsek was likely robbed of a few First-Team All-Star finishes because of some nonsense about the lowest GAA guy getting it...even though newspaper articles at the time were against that notion and Hart voting suggests that Brimsek was the best/most valuable. He also lost prime years because he was in WWII...but returned to form, unlike a lot of players...he also didn't have the fortune of dominating the weakest years (like Bill Durnan for instance) because he was enlisted. I don't find the first couple years after the War to be that great for the league, so that's a fine knock against him, but he proved himself before it too...additionally, Barrasso came into a similarly weak league in the early 80's - early to mid 80's NHL was not too dissimilar to the War years in terms of quality of play...it wasn't good.

I would listen to a case where Quick is ahead because he registered, likely, the best playoff performance (2012) we have seen from a goalie since the Big Sleep...but that's a lot of weight...

Quick's consistency is really just a 4 or 5 year stretch before he turned 30...he's aging poorly...Barrasso had a stretch of 8 or 9 years where he was in the conversation as a top-5 goalie in the league when he first came into it...maybe that's fudging it a little bit in his favor (which I'm generally not)...he doesn't age very well, but scoops up significant Vezina love in 1993 and 1998...something Quick almost certainly won't be able to accomplish...

The only other guy I can think of that can make a claim over Barrasso is Vanbiesbrouck...a case I would buy...and I think it's a case that the majority would make if the Rangers had kept the right goalie in the 1992 expansion draft...

Postby **nocera** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:41 am

Honest question: how can anybody accurately evaluate a talent they've never seen play and has very little film?

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:51 am

There's a pretty good amount of film out there. But contemporary newspaper accounts and game descriptions (without a lot of televised games, newspapers were much more thorough in their details of the events), historical/contemporary books/magazines, coaches/referees/managers polls, award voting results, statistics, etc.

Basically, the same way we do it now...but with a little more trust in the people that watched it every day because there were only six teams for a 25-year stretch and it was pretty easy to track. There weren't even 100 players in the league at some of these points, the Penguins seem to have had 100 players play for them this year already...

But I mean, no one watched the Civil War on tape...we have a pretty good idea about how it went down though...

Postby **nocera** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:21 pm

Source of the post But I mean, no one watched the Civil War on tape...we have a pretty good idea about how it went down though...

Speak for yourself. I watched that whole Ken Burns doc.

Thanks for the answer.

Postby **Jim** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:25 pm

Source of the post But I mean, no one watched the Civil War on tape...we have a pretty good idea about how it went down though...
Speak for yourself. I watched that whole Ken Burns doc.

Thanks for the answer.

I saw Glory... I am sure that that was historically accurate.

Postby **meow** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:08 pm

Get bent

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:20 pm

Get bent

Where's your list, studly...?

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:49 pm

My only thing with this trade is:

The Canucks aren't "one player away" from a Cup. Toffoli is a UFA at the end of the season. He could sign in Van. He might not. But if you're a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 5 years and aren't even guaranteed a spot in it this year, is this a move your GM really needs to make? To give up assets for a guy who isn't even guaranteed to help your team in the future?

Unless you're expecting your team to suck next year and you have a lottery-protected pick dangling out there it makes sense to at least try to make the playoffs this year so the pick is used. But it's just a weird move to make for a non-contender.

You're not wrong. But they learned the other day that Brock Boeser is out for the season...not a couple weeks like they first thought...so they see a chance to get into the playoffs (which is big $) in Vancouver and they could use it, as they probably have one of the league's biggest payrolls...

Postby **meow** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:50 pm

1 Mike Modano
2 Mike Modano’s flapping jersey

Large gap

3 Mike Richter

Large gap

4 Tie with every other American that has played in the national league since 1980

Postby **meecrofilm** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:13 pm

My only thing with this trade is:

The Canucks aren't "one player away" from a Cup. Toffoli is a UFA at the end of the season. He could sign in Van. He might not. But if you're a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 5 years and aren't even guaranteed a spot in it this year, is this a move your GM really needs to make? To give up assets for a guy who isn't even guaranteed to help your team in the future?

Unless you're expecting your team to suck next year and you have a lottery-protected pick dangling out there it makes sense to at least try to make the playoffs this year so the pick is used. But it's just a weird move to make for a non-contender.
You're not wrong. But they learned the other day that Brock Boeser is out for the season...not a couple weeks like they first thought...so they see a chance to get into the playoffs (which is big $) in Vancouver and they could use it, as they probably have one of the league's biggest payrolls...

Exactly. Plus, an opportunity for their young guys to get their feet wet as well, even if they get trounced, is worthwhile.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:17 pm

1 and 2, fine, granted...

But you don't honestly believe that Richter was the best American goalie ever do you...? His heroics from 1994 to 1997 are outstanding ('94 season/playoffs, '96 World Cup, '97 Playoffs til the Legion of Doom ate him up)...but the rest of his career is a big fat zero. While he was the 2nd best goalie in the '94 Final, I just wonder how he's remembered if Nathan Lafayette doesn't hit the crossbar with 3 minutes left or whatever and he can't get it done...all of a sudden, Francis' goal from 1.61 kilometers out in game 4 of 1992 Patrick Division Final looms pretty large...you can make that what-if for a lot of goalies, but Richter's entire legacy of accomplishments is razor thin and because there's not a lot else to fall back on, it brings a lot into question for me...

I would take him over Tim Thomas at least...

Postby **willeyeam** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:36 pm

Buccigross made a - predictably - horrific list of the top 20 American players of all time...

His: https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/286 ... s-rank-all

did you read where he said projected out through 2040

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:41 pm

Yeah, that's even dumber yet. But, yes, I saw that. It's basically like saying, "guys, it's not that bad, I was wearing the 'Kick Me' sign on my chest"...I've seen some bad lists (even given the self-imposed fog of war that he's put on it), this may well be the worst list I've ever seen...it's a complete random number generator...

In fact...hang on a second brb...

Postby **iamjs** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:42 pm

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:46 pm

meow, you're famous...