NHL released some post-expansion center list...I took 9 seconds to glance it over and then made my own better list...because that's the internetiest thing to do...
I'd probably be somewhere in this area...
1. 99
2. 66
--
3. 87
4. Messier
--
5. Clarke
6. Sakic
7. Yzerman
8. Trottier
9. Malkin
10. Esposito
11. Forsberg
--
12. Dionne
13. Keon (counts?)
14. Oates
15. Jumbo
16. Fedorov
17. Lemaire
18. Lindros
19. Gilmour
20. Francis
There's a few other names to swap in towards the bottom as there are with the bottom of any list...the toughest part is separating 5 thru 8 really...
Just for conversation
-Is Messier clearly better than Clarke? Sure, he got two Harts while facing Gretzky and Lemieux and compiled a lot of points. In four of his six cups he was playing with Gretzky. Clarke got three Harts (while facing Orr and then Lafleur/Esposito/Trottier) and similarly to Messier claimed two cups as the No 1 C.
-Is Sakic better than Yzerman?
It seems to be quite close. Both had an excellent second center on their team in Forsberg/Fedorov.
Yzerman never received any Hart thanks to facing Lemieux and Gretzky even though he had an excellent season in 88-89. But I think that Sakic comes out on top to me thanks to producing well in the twilight of his career.
-Does Gilmour belong in the top 20?
His 92-93 season was excellent, especially the playoffs, but otherwise he doesn't stand out so much for me.
Always love the opportunity, so I'm glad you said anything.
- I used to be really down on Messier compared to the rest of the world (especially) and the historical community. After going back and watching more of him from the 80's, he really grew on me. He has risen significantly for me in the last couple years (from like 25-30ish best player ever to 15-20ish). Messier was more complete than Clarke in the sense that he took less selfish penalties (modestly) and he could actually score goals. Plus, he was a better skater. Most people think I have Clarke a little too high actually (even me sometimes), so I'm a little surprised about this call, but it's valid none the less. If I was asked this three or four years ago, I doubt Messier is there (then again, Sid isn't either) but go back and watch some of those series against Calgary in the Smythe Division Playoffs...he's a beast. And I don't even give Messier full credit for a second Hart, that was clearly Bourque's and it was fixed against him.
- Is Sakic better than Yzerman? That's the age old question really. I came around on it being Sakic because of his adaptability. Yzerman has that "155" number to wear like a badge of honor of course. But when Yzerman had to scale it back, he lost more offense than Sakic did. Sakic was able to be a two-way threat and still keep a little better scoring pace...Sakic hit 100 points at age 37. Yzerman's last was at age 27 (would have hit it at 28 too, to be fair). Love both these players and while Sakic was less flashy, he routinely and consistently got the job done. Playoffs included. Sakic's whole package just has a few less holes than Yzerman's for me.
- Gilmour was a superstar grinder before Sid. He kinda gets lost in the sands of time a little bit...but he was a really terrific playmaker, he could play the cycle game along the wall with the best of them, he was routinely in the Selke conversation and unlike Toews...he actually produced. Finished top-8 in assists five times, points three times.
Playoffs is really Gilmour's calling card. He wasn't really a part of any wagon squads besides the late 80's Flames who had to beat Gretzky to get anywhere...but he's one of the most productive players in playoff history...
Min. 100 GP since 1980 - here are the point per game leaders in the playoffs:
1. Gretzky 1.84 (208 GP)
2. Lemieux 1.61 (107 GP)
3. Bossy 1.32 (112 GP)
4. Messier 1.25 (236 GP)
5. Kurri 1.17 (200 GP)
6. Crosby 1.13 (164 GP)
7. Forsberg 1.13 (151 GP)
8. Sakic 1.09 (172 GP)
9. Linseman 1.07 (105 GP)
10. Savard 1.04 (169 GP)
11. Malkin 1.04 (162 GP)
12. Gilmour 1.03 (182 GP)
13. Stevens 1.03 (103 GP)
14. Coffey 1.01 (194 GP)
There's five dynastic Oilers on that list (1, 4, 5, 9, 14) and a lot of heady company...especially when you consider the teams he played on and how many games (!) he was able to keep that average up for...and unlike some of those guys, Gilmour played in the playoffs all the way up to 2002 - deep into the dead puck era...unlike Denis Savard, for instance, who played roughly 0 playoff games in the DPE. Malkin will likely slip under him with age, ya figure...
He was a monster.
And I know you didn't ask, but re: Toews...just mapping it out very roughly...I can't find a spot for Toews in the next 10 spots either I don't think...
That's awesome. I've heard he's a little looney tunes, but a real good guy...
