Hockey Randomness

Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Wed May 13, 2020 7:22 am

yes!

Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Sun May 17, 2020 11:34 am


Lelldorin
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Postby Lelldorin » Mon May 18, 2020 7:25 am

Yeah :(

Speaking of Lundqvist - how high is he on a list of the best goaltenders during the 2000s?
I guess Brodeur is quite high on such a list but players like Roy and Hasek barely played or were in decline...

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Postby Gaucho » Mon May 18, 2020 7:40 am

Just the 2000s? Brodeur, Luongo... hm... Turco, Nabokov...

Lundqvist made his debut in 2005, so it may be a better question to aks where he ranks in the decade 2005-15.

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Postby Lelldorin » Mon May 18, 2020 10:06 am

Just the 2000s? Brodeur, Luongo... hm... Turco, Nabokov...

Lundqvist made his debut in 2005, so it may be a better question to aks where he ranks in the decade 2005-15.
Ok, perhaps I should clarify that I meant 2000-2020 roughly. So essentially who you would have liked to have as your franchise goalie after the year 2000...

But yeah, Luongo was quite good but with a terrible contract. Price and Quick have been quite succesful as well.

mikey
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Postby mikey » Mon May 18, 2020 10:37 am

I mean, Lundqvist is the goalie or record, so to speak, since the Big Sleep...

It's always tough when there's an arbitrary line drawn because you cut careers up (like Brodeur)...

Brodeur has all of his Vezinas after 2000...but still, part of what makes him one of the best ever is what happened before 2000...

I'm going to take all of Brodeur and none of Hasek or Roy or Belfour just because I'm lazy...

So, ya figure...

1. Brodeur
2. Lundqvist
3. Luongo
4. Price
5. Hmmm...I don't know...Quick? Fleury? I don't think I'd go with Rinne or Bobrovsky because of playoff concerns...but it depends on what you value...

I'm a bigger fan of using the lockout as separation for things because of gameplay and rule changes and the amount of attrition that occurred...

Plus, you can use the adaptability (major plus for me, one of the most important traits you can have) for those who had success on either side...guys who could move in the crease and had good lateral movement, they tended to have success on both sides (Brodeur, Luongo, Kiprusoff, etc.), but guys like Jose Theodore and David Aebischer, for instance, who did not, had big spikes as young goalies right before the sleep and really didn't have success on the other side...though Theodore did make some corrections on that front and salvaged a career...

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Postby meow » Mon May 18, 2020 10:41 am

Is this just until 2010?

Quick had fewer than 100 games played by that point, I'd wager a guess.

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Postby mikey » Mon May 18, 2020 10:42 am

I read it as "goalies since 2000..."

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Postby meow » Mon May 18, 2020 10:49 am

Got it. From the hip here:

1. Brodeur
2. Luongo
3. Lundqvist
4. Price
5. Quick
6. Fleury

Then we get muddy.

7. Miller
8. Kiprusoff
9. Rask

Then there is a big drop-off into mediocrity.

Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Mon May 18, 2020 11:04 am

Image

Lelldorin
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Postby Lelldorin » Mon May 18, 2020 3:03 pm

Yeah, I was mainly interested in knowing how high you rated Lundqvist compared to his peers.

But we can do post lockout if you prefer that ;)

I still find it odd that Lundqvist only received one vezina and Luongo zero considering long and high level of play. Mikey's favorite goalie Thomas has two, Bobrovsky has two for example.

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Postby mikey » Mon May 18, 2020 4:07 pm

That's the binary nature of award counting, right? Plus, level of competition. Thomas was facing basically no one at the time. The difference in goaltending now isn't so much the talent but the consistency and reliability to bring that talent to the forefront...

I am more inclined to take a long-term high level goalie now...someone who doesn't give up a bunch of soft, garbage goals at bad times...Lundqvist, Price, etc.

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Postby Kaiser » Mon May 18, 2020 10:32 pm

Who won a vezina with the worst defense?

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Postby mikey » Mon May 18, 2020 11:46 pm

Team defense, like structure? Or the individual caliber of each defenseman on the team...?

meow
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Postby meow » Tue May 19, 2020 9:51 am

Image

Kaiser
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Postby Kaiser » Tue May 19, 2020 11:08 am

Team defense, like structure? Or the individual caliber of each defenseman on the team...?
Team I guess. Who had to carry their team? not Brodeur.

meow
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Postby meow » Tue May 19, 2020 11:21 am

This might be a little recency biased, but Price in 2014-15 was unGodly a lot of the season and Montreal was middle of the pack in almost all offensive categories.

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Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue May 19, 2020 11:38 am

Jesus meow just **** him already and get it over with.

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Postby meow » Tue May 19, 2020 11:50 am

I wish I could *bites lip*

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Postby NTP66 » Tue May 19, 2020 11:52 am

Image

mikey
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Postby mikey » Tue May 19, 2020 12:58 pm

Yeah, Price in 2015 is a good start...

Miller in 2010...didn't really have a great defense to a man or good two-way forwards...

Barrasso's 1984...late career Gilbert Perreault, young Dave Andreychuk, largely inebriated Real Cloutier leading the way at forward...teenaged Phil Housley and Hannu Virta leading the way on defense...

Not saying there weren't some defensive players (Hajt and Ramsey, Lindy Ruff, etc.) and a coach in Scotty Bowman...but that Buffalo team wasn't great...

Roy Worters in 1931 for the New York Americans...that team was bad and Worters willed them into coherence...same with Charlie Gardiner in 1934 with Chicago...team finished dead last in the league in goals for, and Gardiner willed them into the playoffs and all the way to a Cup...

I'd say those might well be the best 5...or most of them...

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Postby shafnutz05 » Tue May 19, 2020 5:32 pm

In case you needed further confirmation that Steve Downie is a lunatic. This is a tough read.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us ... m-aliu-nhl

mikey
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Postby mikey » Tue May 19, 2020 6:49 pm

Some guys, like Aliu, get dealt a bad hand in terms of junior teammates...and that's really unfortunate. He wasn't a very promising prospect for me, but that doesn't mean he didn't deserve a hell of a lot better than he got...Downie and these types are sociopaths...

Akil Thomas, for instance, has said basically, "race has never really been an issue for me...everyone has treated me well."

Aliu got dealt an almost impossible hand...Nigerian father, Ukrainian mother...moved from Ukraine where he didn't want to leave from, moved to Nigeria, moved to Canada when he was 12...didn't speak English. Every day he'd fight someone, by his own admission, he fought kids because he didn't understand them and assumed they were talking about him...he also was not super coachable, despite only having started playing six years before his draft year...so he had his own reputation. That said, and again to reiterate, no one deserves to have Downie as a teammate...and Jesus, those social media messages that he gets, that's beyond words...

Good on him for telling his story again, getting people like Peters to change or getting them out of the way is a big positive...hockey really should be for everyone who is humane and I hope that the NHL wields its power to continue to push that message down through the layers...

Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Wed May 20, 2020 7:26 am

It's May 20 and the players aren't even back on the ice yet. I mean ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Postby mikey » Wed May 20, 2020 8:44 am

Mid/Late July is, tentatively, when they expect to be able to get actual games going again...at least, that's the thought right now.

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