Making a Murderer Thread

mac5155
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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby mac5155 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:13 pm

Can you really Consider winning those cases "skill"? I'd call it luck.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby shmenguin » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:16 pm

Can you really Consider winning those cases "skill"? I'd call it luck.
It's not like he redefined modern day prosecution or anything, but yeah - he seemed to do what he set out to do at a high level.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:29 pm


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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby dodint » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:08 pm

Wasn't she in jail during the time of the murder?

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:53 pm

Yes, locked up for a DUI. But Nancy Grace will get to the bottom of this story. (I didn't know Nancy Grace was still a thing).

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:02 pm

She also has the same hair.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby Orlando Penguin » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:56 am

Just finished the series. Wow. And I don't say 'wow' in the sense of the documentary was Oscar-worthy. I say it in the sense that it's hard to believe sane people can come up with the decisions that they came up with. Random impressions:

--Reasonable doubt. Innocent until proven guilty. These two tenets of the court were taken out of play in both trials.

--How does the Avery jury convict on the count of homicide but NOT convict on the count of mutilating a corpse? And then, the Dassey jury (after likely knowing the contents of the Avery case) DOES convict on the count of mutilating a corpse? Ummmm, huh??

--The excused jurist said the jury was at 3 guilty, 7 not, 2 undecided when they first entered the room. How in the world do the 3 overtake the other 9? Yeah, I get you want to go home but this isn't some bicycle theft you're deciding. There's also the prospect of a hung jury if you can't come to an unanimous conclusion.

--Why the hell was the jury from Manitowoc County in the first place? With all the publicity of his previous exoneration, there's way too much notoriety to pull from the locals. Congrats that you moved the trial to Calumet but you still pull from the home crowd? My other theory about the jury is that since they were from Manitowoc County and it was Manitowoc County law enforcement under fire, if the jury comes back with 'not guilty', that law enforcement will know who's on that jury and then suddenly, those jurors are getting pulled over for doing 36 in a 35, etc. Perhaps the jurors were a bit nervous that if the cops can fabricate evidence, they could become victims too.

--That was just the jury...how about the evidence? Awfully convenient that the cousin of the deceased was the one that found the car...and that she was the ONLY member of the search party given a camera...and that it only took her 20 minutes to find the car in a 40 acre lot covered by hundreds of junked cars. That Holy Spirit must have been strong. If she was sliced up and shot like you said she was, where's the blood? Or should Avery audition for Mr. Clean because he purified that bedroom and that mattress and wherever else those Barney Fifes thought she may have been killed. Oh yeah, and it was awfully nice that the Toyota key and the flattened bullet magically appeared when Lenk and that other patrol clown got involved in the search. What about the syringe hole in the vial of blood that was stored in evidence lockup from the 1985 case? Whew, that's a lot of doubt that somehow got overlooked.

--The deceased's ex-boyfriend as well as the male roommate were never persons of interest?

--Despite the Directv dish on the top of their house, I find it hard to believe the families are that simple to not know from all the various TV crime procedurals that were out there in 2005 that you ALWAYS have a lawyer present when in an interrogation/interview situation. And if a minor is involved, the parent ALWAYS sits in on it. Oh wait...Dassey's mom had the chance to do that and she turned it down. :facepalm:

--Dassey's original lawyer and his investigator probably won both cases for the state when they extracted the BS confession from their low-IQ 'client'. I was yelling at my computer screen during that episode wondering who the hell those 2 were working for.


I'm sure there's more on my brain about all of this but these are the biggest points. To Colby's point mentioned earlier in the thread, the fact that Theresa was last seen alive by Avery and at the salvage yard and that Avery doesn't have any kind of alibi are monster items to consider, as it is in any case like this. So Avery was a very logical place to start. I think what this documentary may have failed to acknowledge is just how deep the investigation went outside of Avery. Did they look at anyone else (as I mentioned above) or did they just decide that this was going to be their way for getting back at Avery for the civil suit? It was a tremendous way to kill 10 hours late at nite over the last few nites and it just opens another window of knowledge that there is corruption everywhere, even in our courts.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:53 am

Dean Strang is on Reasonable Doubt (Adam Carolla and Mark Geragos podcast on itunes) this week. Recommend downloading.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby AuthorTony » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:47 pm

Lots of internet chatter about the evidence against Avery that was left out of the series, but there was a good amount or pro Avery evidence that was cut too due to time constraints. Here's a link to several bits.

http://www.avclub.com/article/read-pro- ... kin-230634

I especially liked this:

On the “Kelly Files” interview, Dean Strang mentioned that there were little drops of deer blood all over Avery’s garage, essentially debunking the theory that they could have cleaned all the blood evidence out of the garage, since had they cleaned it that thoroughly, there wouldn’t have been any deer blood.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby count2infinity » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:25 am

Was there any evidence to suggest Dassey's story was legit? No blood in the bedroom where apparently she was stabbed and had her throat cut, no evidence of rope fibers or chain marks on the bed to suggest she was tied there, no blood in the garage where she was supposedly shot. No offense to the Avery house, but they are not smart enough to hide all of that.

Again, I'm not suggesting that Avery and Dassey didn't do it, I'm just saying the case against them is dicey at best.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:34 am

That is the kind of thing I keep hearing Dean Strang say in these interviews, regardless of whether Steven Avery did it or Brandon Dassey helped it is simply the case that the murder could not have happened the way the State says it did.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby shmenguin » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:47 am

I can't see any way that dassey wouldn't have confessed or told the real story by now if he was actually involved.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby dodint » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:20 pm

Finished this tonight. Watched the last episode after the Steeler game as a pick me up.

I feel gross and I want to move.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby Morkle » Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:42 am

That's my whole thing, if she was cut in the bedroom, there'd be blood everywhere. These guys were barely smart enough to tie their own shoes. No way could they have been that intricate.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:13 pm

The mattress was also clean, which also would have been covered with blood had she been tied and tortured there.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby Morkle » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:50 pm

Right, that and in the third episode one of the prosecutors even admitted to not seeing the Rav 4 key in that spot casually on the ground next to the dresser. You're telling me a guy can clean up his bedroom immaculately, but is dumb enough to leave the key to that car just casually laying on his floor?

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:04 pm

And that Rav 4 key only had the victim's DNA on it. Only Steven Avery's. She'd owned the car for several years at that point. At the least it would have a roommate's DNA, if not members of her family.
Last edited by DigitalGypsy66 on Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby shmenguin » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:07 pm

You're telling me a guy can clean up his bedroom immaculately, but is dumb enough to leave the key to that car just casually laying on his floor?
if the question is, "is someone in the avery/dassey family dumb enough to do X?", the answer is yes - regardless of what X is.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby shmenguin » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:45 pm

sidebar...so when i was 6 or 7 episodes deep, some people outside my office started talking about the show. i quickly ran out and asked for no spoilers. they agreed to oblige. but then one of those people says to me, "but you know he's still in jail".

no clue what the word "spoiler" means to this guy.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby Morkle » Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:26 pm

You're telling me a guy can clean up his bedroom immaculately, but is dumb enough to leave the key to that car just casually laying on his floor?
if the question is, "is someone in the avery/dassey family dumb enough to do X?", the answer is yes - regardless of what X is.
That's the problem, I don't find him smart enough to clean up a scene in multiple spots, and let something like a key who mind you was stated wasn't there initially, now show up.

Just doesn't make sense. I will say, only having seen the video and not all of the facts swayed my opinion. I'd like to hear way more.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby dodint » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:20 pm

Source of the post That's the problem, I don't find him smart enough to clean up a scene in multiple spots, and let something like a key who mind you was stated wasn't there initially, now show up.
The theory on the key was that it was hidden in that bookcase and fell out, hence why it wasn't found until seventh entry. Shenanigans, of course, but that is the story. In the real world he would've left the key, you know, in the Rav 4. But that doesn't work if you're trying to plant evidence.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby mac5155 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:09 pm

sidebar...so when i was 6 or 7 episodes deep, some people outside my office started talking about the show. i quickly ran out and asked for no spoilers. they agreed to oblige. but then one of those people says to me, "but you know he's still in jail".

no clue what the word "spoiler" means to this guy.
In the episode where the verdict is read, I told my wife "I'm not sure why I'm so nervous, I know the verdict"

I thought it was public knowledge that he was found guilty. I mean, thus, the title of the show.. Never showing a video interview of him..always a phone call.. Didn't realize his incarceration was a spoiler either.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby AuthorTony » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:24 pm

I thought it was public knowledge that he was found guilty. I mean, thus, the title of the show.. Never showing a video interview of him..always a phone call.. Didn't realize his incarceration was a spoiler either.
I knew he'd been convicted, but I kept thinking something would happen to get him released again. When it came down to just 1 more episode, Netflix's ep summary on the screen destroyed that illusion.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby shmenguin » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:32 am

I thought there was a decent chance he killed himself, actually.

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Making a Murderer Thread

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:10 am

One big take away from this should be that the police should no longer be allowed to call a press conference that in all intents and purposes declares the suspect guilty before the trial. It pollutes the jury pool and is in complete opposition to the right of "innocent until proven guilty".

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