Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby **eddy** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:00 pm

Source of the post Honestly, the most brazen part of whole thing is, that whole ridiculous "here's an audio-montage of all the things said about Dany" shot during the "previously on" part of the episode is essentially Benioff and Weiss admitting they did a **** job of setting that up. "Oh, btw, here's all THIS to remind you that, like, she could snap at any minute! Remember how sometimes she was kind of crazy sometimes?!"

I was just using those as examples of part of the bigger picture. She was one of my most least liked characters, but I always felt like she was crazy and that was the best most tolerable aspect of her. I was relieved last night when she burned down the city, I looked at my wife and said, finally and actually cheered (because it's a ridiculous show about dragons and ice zombies)! I actually like her a lot more today than I did in the past.

Postby **Spangler** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:05 pm

Burned a woman alive for tricking her into surrendering her unborn child
Burned all the past Dothraki queens alive in their hut.
Sealed her handmaiden and Xaro Xhoan Daxos in a room when they betrayed her.
Crucified all the slavers, even the ones who treated their slaves well, without a trial
Seemingly enjoyed seeing her brother get his head melted off.
Burned a bunched of surrendering Lannister soldiers alive because they weren't on her side.
None of this sets any precedence for the mass genocide of innocent civilians. All of the above victims had skin in the game to some degree. If anything, it establishes a clear character trait that she is capable of drawing a very defined line in regard to her ruthlessness. They did an ass job of setting up an event of this magnitude. It was essentially the horror-movie equivalent of a jump scare.

Since she was a child, Dany has been told the people of Westeros would love her and were waiting for her to take up the throne. When she finally gets there, she soon realizes they don't love her and they are not fully on her side. Anyone who has not been on her side ends up burning. All of her council is gone, the same people who have steered her in the right direction in the past, and she has now lost her mind.

Would she have done the same to the people of Mereen who love her? Probably not. She never fully gained the support in Westeros. Besides, by the nature of going mad, her old values kinda go out the window at this point. She somehow convinced herself that ruling in fear is the only way to make sure no one underminds her ever gain. Considering she found out Varys was already plotting against her, her paranoia went out of control.

I will say that there is no question that the show would have benefited with a couple more episodes, but this is what we got.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:35 pm

Let's be real, for all the whining coming from the crowd of people who held Dany up as a feminist hero and named their daughters "wife of horse lord"...spending your entire life being told that everyone will love you and can't wait for your arrival, only to find out that you're not as important as you were led to believe and having a meltdown because of it really does sound like a modern feminist icon.

Postby **eddy** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:37 pm

to be fair, Aegon, Tywin and Cersei all did the same thing. Tywin and Cersei not to the extent of Aegon.
they didn't. aegon was about to die one way or the other, and was trying to stop the siege. he also had a long history of being batshit crazy. "burn them all" was on-brand, to say the least.

tywin did what now?

and cersei blowing up the sept was tactical. like aegon, it was either THAT or just hand yourself over.
You guys mean "Aerys", right? Aegon was the conqueror, Aerys was the Mad King. Thanks.

No, I meant Aegon and his dragons.

Postby **MrKennethTKangaroo** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:38 pm

Let's be real, for all the whining coming from the crowd of people who held Dany up as a feminist hero and named their daughters "wife of horse lord"...spending your entire life being told that everyone will love you and can't wait for your arrival, only to find out that you're not as important as you were led to believe and having a meltdown because of it really does sound like a modern feminist icon.

josh bell level of heavy hitting right here. why don't you bring these types of zingers to the bucco thread anymore

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:39 pm

Burned a woman alive for tricking her into surrendering her unborn child
Burned all the past Dothraki queens alive in their hut.
Sealed her handmaiden and Xaro Xhoan Daxos in a room when they betrayed her.
Crucified all the slavers, even the ones who treated their slaves well, without a trial
Seemingly enjoyed seeing her brother get his head melted off.
Burned a bunched of surrendering Lannister soldiers alive because they weren't on her side.
None of this sets any precedence for the mass genocide of innocent civilians. All of the above victims had skin in the game to some degree. If anything, it establishes a clear character trait that she is capable of drawing a very defined line in regard to her ruthlessness. They did an ass job of setting up an event of this magnitude. It was essentially the horror-movie equivalent of a jump scare.
Since she was a child, Dany has been told the people of Westeros would love her and were waiting for her to take up the throne. When she finally gets there, she soon realizes they don't love her and they are not fully on her side. Anyone who has not been on her side ends up burning. All of her council is gone, the same people who have steered her in the right direction in the past, and she has now lost her mind.

Would she have done the same to the people of Mereen who love her? Probably not. She never fully gained the support in Westeros. Besides, by the nature of going mad, her old values kinda go out the window at this point. She somehow convinced herself that ruling in fear is the only way to make sure no one underminds her ever gain. Considering she found out Varys was already plotting against her, her paranoia went out of control.

I will say that there is no question that the show would have benefited with a couple more episodes, but this is what we got.

This doesn’t hold water. The people she killed were indifferent. You’re just describing reasons she was grouchy. You aren’t justifying her actions or even providing a plausible root cause for a record-setting murder spree.

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:41 pm

to be fair, Aegon, Tywin and Cersei all did the same thing. Tywin and Cersei not to the extent of Aegon.
they didn't. aegon was about to die one way or the other, and was trying to stop the siege. he also had a long history of being batshit crazy. "burn them all" was on-brand, to say the least.

tywin did what now?

and cersei blowing up the sept was tactical. like aegon, it was either THAT or just hand yourself over.
You guys mean "Aerys", right? Aegon was the conqueror, Aerys was the Mad King. Thanks.
No, I meant Aegon and his dragons.

Did Aegon torch surrounding villages and cities or did he just target castles? I don’t remember him obliterating entire societies for funzies.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:42 pm

Let's be real, for all the whining coming from the crowd of people who held Dany up as a feminist hero and named their daughters "wife of horse lord"...spending your entire life being told that everyone will love you and can't wait for your arrival, only to find out that you're not as important as you were led to believe and having a meltdown because of it really does sound like a modern feminist icon.
josh bell level of heavy hitting right here. why don't you bring these types of zingers to the bucco thread anymore

Bell's been doing it all for me.

Postby **NAN** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:46 pm

Burned a woman alive for tricking her into surrendering her unborn child
Burned all the past Dothraki queens alive in their hut.
Sealed her handmaiden and Xaro Xhoan Daxos in a room when they betrayed her.
Crucified all the slavers, even the ones who treated their slaves well, without a trial
Seemingly enjoyed seeing her brother get his head melted off.
Burned a bunched of surrendering Lannister soldiers alive because they weren't on her side.
None of this sets any precedence for the mass genocide of innocent civilians. All of the above victims had skin in the game to some degree. If anything, it establishes a clear character trait that she is capable of drawing a very defined line in regard to her ruthlessness. They did an ass job of setting up an event of this magnitude. It was essentially the horror-movie equivalent of a jump scare.
Since she was a child, Dany has been told the people of Westeros would love her and were waiting for her to take up the throne. When she finally gets there, she soon realizes they don't love her and they are not fully on her side. Anyone who has not been on her side ends up burning. All of her council is gone, the same people who have steered her in the right direction in the past, and she has now lost her mind.

Would she have done the same to the people of Mereen who love her? Probably not. She never fully gained the support in Westeros. Besides, by the nature of going mad, her old values kinda go out the window at this point. She somehow convinced herself that ruling in fear is the only way to make sure no one underminds her ever gain. Considering she found out Varys was already plotting against her, her paranoia went out of control.

I will say that there is no question that the show would have benefited with a couple more episodes, but this is what we got.
This doesn’t hold water. The people she killed were indifferent. You’re just describing reasons she was grouchy. You aren’t justifying her actions or even providing a plausible root cause for a record-setting murder spree.

Sometimes people just snap. Especially people that have been through war for a few years. I don't understand why you are so against any reason she could snap. Weren't you the guy that left this board for a few months because Tom Wilson won the Cup.

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:47 pm

Euron pulling a Zack Morris 4th wall break...sweet Jesus. This guy calls himself a god. Gets a deathbed boner for possibly killing his one armed brother in law. What an impressive character.

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:49 pm

Burned a woman alive for tricking her into surrendering her unborn child
Burned all the past Dothraki queens alive in their hut.
Sealed her handmaiden and Xaro Xhoan Daxos in a room when they betrayed her.
Crucified all the slavers, even the ones who treated their slaves well, without a trial
Seemingly enjoyed seeing her brother get his head melted off.
Burned a bunched of surrendering Lannister soldiers alive because they weren't on her side.
None of this sets any precedence for the mass genocide of innocent civilians. All of the above victims had skin in the game to some degree. If anything, it establishes a clear character trait that she is capable of drawing a very defined line in regard to her ruthlessness. They did an ass job of setting up an event of this magnitude. It was essentially the horror-movie equivalent of a jump scare.
Since she was a child, Dany has been told the people of Westeros would love her and were waiting for her to take up the throne. When she finally gets there, she soon realizes they don't love her and they are not fully on her side. Anyone who has not been on her side ends up burning. All of her council is gone, the same people who have steered her in the right direction in the past, and she has now lost her mind.

Would she have done the same to the people of Mereen who love her? Probably not. She never fully gained the support in Westeros. Besides, by the nature of going mad, her old values kinda go out the window at this point. She somehow convinced herself that ruling in fear is the only way to make sure no one underminds her ever gain. Considering she found out Varys was already plotting against her, her paranoia went out of control.

I will say that there is no question that the show would have benefited with a couple more episodes, but this is what we got.
This doesn’t hold water. The people she killed were indifferent. You’re just describing reasons she was grouchy. You aren’t justifying her actions or even providing a plausible root cause for a record-setting murder spree.
Sometimes people just snap. Especially people that have been through war for a few years. I don't understand why you are so against any reason she could snap. Weren't you the guy that left this board for a few months because Tom Wilson won the Cup.

I’m not. But that’s a great comparison otherwise.

Stay out of this one, NANers. Things are shiny and they go boom. You like them. We understand.

Postby **eddy** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:54 pm

to be fair, Aegon, Tywin and Cersei all did the same thing. Tywin and Cersei not to the extent of Aegon.
they didn't. aegon was about to die one way or the other, and was trying to stop the siege. he also had a long history of being batshit crazy. "burn them all" was on-brand, to say the least.

tywin did what now?

and cersei blowing up the sept was tactical. like aegon, it was either THAT or just hand yourself over.
You guys mean "Aerys", right? Aegon was the conqueror, Aerys was the Mad King. Thanks.
No, I meant Aegon and his dragons.
Did Aegon torch surrounding villages and cities or did he just target castles? I don’t remember him obliterating entire societies for funzies.

I really don't remember the details. Might be just castles, but I thought I remember something about an entire city. Either way, good conversation today and the more I think about it, and it hurts me to say this, but I think I'm rooting for Dany now. Or at least until I think about her bend the knee whiny attitude

Postby **NAN** » Mon May 13, 2019 4:59 pm

I’m not. But that’s a great comparison otherwise.

Stay out of this one, NANers. Things are shiny and they go boom. You like them. We understand.

Meh. I'm just happy I can enjoy things in life.

Postby **Spangler** » Mon May 13, 2019 5:08 pm

Burned a woman alive for tricking her into surrendering her unborn child
Burned all the past Dothraki queens alive in their hut.
Sealed her handmaiden and Xaro Xhoan Daxos in a room when they betrayed her.
Crucified all the slavers, even the ones who treated their slaves well, without a trial
Seemingly enjoyed seeing her brother get his head melted off.
Burned a bunched of surrendering Lannister soldiers alive because they weren't on her side.
None of this sets any precedence for the mass genocide of innocent civilians. All of the above victims had skin in the game to some degree. If anything, it establishes a clear character trait that she is capable of drawing a very defined line in regard to her ruthlessness. They did an ass job of setting up an event of this magnitude. It was essentially the horror-movie equivalent of a jump scare.
Since she was a child, Dany has been told the people of Westeros would love her and were waiting for her to take up the throne. When she finally gets there, she soon realizes they don't love her and they are not fully on her side. Anyone who has not been on her side ends up burning. All of her council is gone, the same people who have steered her in the right direction in the past, and she has now lost her mind.

Would she have done the same to the people of Mereen who love her? Probably not. She never fully gained the support in Westeros. Besides, by the nature of going mad, her old values kinda go out the window at this point. She somehow convinced herself that ruling in fear is the only way to make sure no one underminds her ever gain. Considering she found out Varys was already plotting against her, her paranoia went out of control.

I will say that there is no question that the show would have benefited with a couple more episodes, but this is what we got.
This doesn’t hold water. The people she killed were indifferent. You’re just describing reasons she was grouchy. You aren’t justifying her actions or even providing a plausible root cause for a record-setting murder spree.

I'm not really saying her actions are justifiable. Just how she may rationalize doing such a thing. This thread better sums up her path to doing this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/ ... broke_her/

Postby **Sam's Drunk Dog** » Mon May 13, 2019 6:38 pm

I think Dany realized how easy it was to destroy the KL defenses with Drogon, and how Tyrion had urged her not to do it previously back when she still had 3 dragons, and her two closest advisors; Jorah and Missandei, were still alive.

I think she no longer trusts Tyrion at all at this point, and when the bells ring, she might think it is just another lie by Cersei that Tyrion is falling for and that she hasn't really given up. Missandei's last words probably come to mind too.

The fear thing plays a big part here too. Her goal isn't just to rule KL, it is the entire 7 kingdoms. Burning the biggest and most well defended city in the realm to the ground is a message to the reat of the realm of a possible similar fate if they don't fall in line.

That would be the best explanation for her actions in my mind. Obviously that doesn't justify her actions at all. This might not be what the show writers were going for since they didn't really give those reasons in the behind the scenes stuff. Maybe it will be fleshed out more in the next episode, but unlikely with how little time there is left.

I definitely agree that these shortened seasons didn't allow the time for proper story development. I am not sure if we would have got that though even with more time cause the story has been so badly told for most of it.

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon May 13, 2019 6:52 pm

I certainly enjoy talking about the show ITT

Postby **AuthorTony** » Mon May 13, 2019 7:38 pm

missandei is a lamewad tipping point, imo.

I don't think that was the tipping point. In her mind, she'd been betrayed by everyone she trusted except Grey Worm, the man she loved rejected her advances, she found out she has no legit claim to the throne, and even after riding to the rescue on her dragon to fight the undead, others great credited for being heroes. Then, they go to fight a huge war against Cersei and it ends in a whimper. She went into that fight knowing that was her chance to cement her place as ruler. When it ended without an ounce of protest, she lost that chance and, in her power hungry mind, she thought the only way to rule was to send a message to the world that she was capable of destroying everyone and everything without mercy.

I haven't liked Dany for a few seasons so I'm admittedly biased, but this heel turn doesn't surprise me.I thought the power has been changing her for several seasons and all the changes were for the bad. I thought her love affair with Snow might be used to redeem her, to make her realize she doesn't have force everyone to bend the knee or be burned alive, but obviously things changed.

I do with they'd have taken more time with it, but for whatever reason the producers wanted to rush through the end game, I suppose just to be finished with it.

Postby **Shyster** » Mon May 13, 2019 8:35 pm

The Dragons

The less said the better. I am generally sympathetic to how hard it is to incorporate these things into the show, but last week was (so I thought) a clear message that she can't just rain hellfire down because she's the only one with aerial capability. Haha, never mind! An entire fleet, tens of scorpions along the city wall, no problem.
You can't fly around the ships and burn them from the back the previous episode, but you can this episode! Why? #reasons.

In the books Euron sails to the ruins of Valyria and comes back with a magic horn that the Valyrians supposedly used to tame/capture their dragons. That is not on the show. I'd be willing to be that Rhaegal in the books somehow dies through the use of that horn, but since it was never included in the show, they had to come up with some other way to kill him off. Think of how much more sense the events would make if Euron used that special weapon to kill Rhaegal, but it broke or was lost afterwards and thus wasn't available at King's Landing to use on Drogon. Certainly makes more sense than the scorpions being deadly accurate for one battle and useless for the next.

Postby **eddy** » Mon May 13, 2019 8:58 pm

Grrm confirms he will never finish the series

http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019 ... -internet/

Postby **Willie Kool** » Mon May 13, 2019 8:59 pm

My predictions:

Dany kills Tyrion. Jon kills Grey Worm. Dany kills Jon. Arya kills Dany. Gendry rules Westoros. Sansa rules the North. Arya pulls off her face to reveal she is actually Jaqen H'ghar. Fade to black.

Postby **skullman80** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:06 pm

Grrm confirms he will never finish the series

http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019 ... -internet/

Glad he shot down the absurd theories of the books being done.

Postby **Sam's Drunk Dog** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:13 pm

My predictions:

Dany kills Tyrion. Jon kills Grey Worm. Dany kills Jon. Arya kills Dany. Gendry rules Westoros. Sansa rules the North. Arya pulls off her face to reveal she is actually Jaqen H'ghar. Fade to black.

And Don't Stop Believing plays as the credits roll

Postby **Gaucho** » Tue May 14, 2019 5:36 am

Postby **Pavel Bure** » Tue May 14, 2019 6:12 am

Postby **Sam's Drunk Dog** » Tue May 14, 2019 7:20 am

So something I really didn't realize until I read the recaps was that Varys was trying to poison Dany, which is why he had a little bird in the kitchen and was asking about if she was eating.

Also, her being hangry is definitely a reason for Dany's descent into madness, imo.