Game of Thrones Discussion

shmenguin
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby shmenguin » Mon May 20, 2019 2:19 pm

I was happy to see Edmure again because he disappeared off the face of the planet for a bit.

What's the point of still having a Night's Watch again?
i gathered it's some sort of support group for lonely men at this point.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Mon May 20, 2019 2:21 pm

thankful, however, that they omitted the scene where they explain the night's watch to greyworm, as he makes his greyworm face and says, "yes. it ok. he go there and we use honor system. we f*** off to nath now."

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Mon May 20, 2019 2:30 pm

AV Club always has a great review for these.

https://tv.avclub.com/in-the-end-game-o ... 1834879182
When Tyrion sits at the head of the Small Council table, the chairs are empty, but one by one they fill with familiar faces in exactly the roles you might have imagined for them. Look, there’s Samwell Tarly, now Grandmaester Tarly! Remember Bronn? Well, now he’s Master of Coin, and he’s prioritizing brothel reconstruction! If you were wondering about your old pal Davos, why he’s Master of Ships, of course! And if you thought anyone but Brienne of Tarth could be Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, you were probably logically imagining a somewhat less wish fulfillment-focused finale for the series. The truth is, in the wake of fan petitions angry that the writers didn’t deliver exactly what they wanted, this section of the finale felt like it was checking off what anyone emotionally attached to these characters would have wanted for them, right down to the knighting of Ser Podrick Payne for good measure.
Only a putz ass simpleton would root for an ending scene like this

DigitalGypsy66
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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Mon May 20, 2019 2:34 pm

I honestly was "meh" about reading the last two books until the series ended. Now, I want the full (and likely bloated) story, right to the end. I honestly doubt we'll see a book 7, and Winds of Winter is probably years away still.

Again, I've enjoyed the series a great deal. The last two seasons were rushed and truncated, but I enjoyed it for what it was.

Stoosh
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Postby Stoosh » Mon May 20, 2019 3:08 pm

This was largely fine, actually. But the bad stuff was just so incredibly bad that it's hard to really celebrate this as an acceptable finale.

Good:

Dany - Legit great job here, imo. The writing and acting showed us that what we saw last week was a complete and permanent psychotic break. They needed A+ stuff from Emilia Clarke to pull this off and they did it.
Agreed. This is another good article on Emilia Clarke's handling of Dany over the last season or so:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-n ... ke-beyonce
I remember the boys—our writers and showrunners—telling me that Daenerys’s arc is that of Lawrence of Arabia. I watched “Lawrence of Arabia,” and I was, like, “Great, cool. He’s brilliant. He survived, and it’s wonderful.” But then you remember how that movie ended, with Lawrence’s disintegration. I didn’t quite put those two things together. Or maybe I didn’t want to see it coming because I care about Daenerys too much.

Q: Can you talk about that a little more, how Daenerys’s arc is like Lawrence of Arabia’s life?

Well, fundamentally, he’s brought in as a savior. He goes in and fights for the people, but then, ultimately, it’s a story about how power corrupts absolutely. You see power turn this man wild and mad. He can’t see anymore through the haze, the giddy highs, of being in charge. And that’s what Daenerys experiences...

Now, when I showed the first glimmer of coldness, in Season 1, when Khal Drogo kills my brother, Viserys Targaryen...It was the first time I inhabited this kind of steely serenity, this calm, quiet. So that’s where I’ve gone with her. She’s so completely in control of this part of her that it actually calms her.

I’ve always wanted to warm her up, because I’ve seen the more feminine aspects of her. I’m not saying that as anything derogatory at all. But she was a child. She was sold. She grew up around a life that was written for her. She was on the run her entire life. She lost every single person that meant anything to her. She was brought up by a brother who was telling her why her family had been taken from her, because people haven’t allowed them to inhabit the Iron Throne.

...She encounters the dark side of that. She’s not wanted. She’s not loved completely there. And so she gives herself to Jon [Snow] entirely, and she gives him many, many choices, many options to see clearly with open eyes. And she’s asking him, “If you wanted to be with me, then let me fulfill this. . . . I know I can be a good leader, so let’s do this together. Let’s do it.” And he doesn’t. And that disappointment is the final thing that breaks her as a human being, because, my God, all she’s known is pain, sacrifice, and abuse. All she’s known is people turning on her, people betraying her, and she’s completely alone. And so, with all of that, I think that it brings us to the moment where she’s on top of the dragon and making that choice.
and for her final scene with Jon...
Tell us what you can about filming the last scene.

As I say, I always wanted to show that softer side of Daenerys—or more textured. There’s always a thousand reasons why anyone comes to any conclusion or says anything. We are the product of the experiences that we’ve had, and so with all of these moments when they’re kind of, like, “She’s just brutal, she’s cold,” I really tried to bring a kind of lightness.

I wanted to play a game with what the scene was about. It’s not that I wanted to show her as “mad,” because I really don’t like that word. I don’t enjoy fans calling me “the Mad Queen.” But she is so far gone in grief, in trauma, and in pain. And yet our brains are fascinating in the way that they find a fast route to feel O.K., whether you’re relying on a substance or you’re mildly deluded.

If you see abuse in someone young, they often are able to mentally leave the room. I wanted Daenerys to be there. I wanted to show her as we saw her in the beginning: young, naïve, childlike, open, and full of love and hope. I wanted so much for that to be the last memory of her.
Reading this and thinking back to her performances this season and especially through the last couple of episodes, I think Emilia Clarke did a really fantastic job.

meow
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Postby meow » Mon May 20, 2019 3:15 pm

Was Tyrion smashing a rock on Cersei’s face or another rock? I don’t remember the order of events in that scene

Rocco
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Postby Rocco » Mon May 20, 2019 3:35 pm

I was happy to see Edmure again because he disappeared off the face of the planet for a bit.

What's the point of still having a Night's Watch again?
It's a place to send criminals and sons who could muck up inheritances so they're never heard from again.

Dickie Dunn
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Postby Dickie Dunn » Mon May 20, 2019 3:42 pm

Was Tyrion smashing a rock on Cersei’s face or another rock? I don’t remember the order of events in that scene
The later but the former would have been wonderful.

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Postby willeyeam » Mon May 20, 2019 3:48 pm

I was happy to see Edmure again because he disappeared off the face of the planet for a bit.

What's the point of still having a Night's Watch again?
It's a place to send criminals and sons who could muck up inheritances so they're never heard from again.
Sounds like Australia. That backfired

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Postby eddysnake » Mon May 20, 2019 3:51 pm


Shyster
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Postby Shyster » Mon May 20, 2019 3:54 pm

As a book reader, I was originally avoiding the show because I didn't want spoilers. But then I started reading summaries because I became more and more doubtful over time that GRRM would ever actually write the books. I wonder of the serious negative reaction to the ending might convince Martin to alter the ending when and if he actually gets to it. (Assuming, of course, that the show's ending is actually faithful to Martin's plans.) The hate toward the ending might make the books better.

As to the ending, the one thing that jumps out at me is I simply cannot imagine why Dorne and the Iron Islands would agree to stay. Dorne would have zero relationship with a Stark king and utterly no reason to not return to independent status. The Iron Islanders have been warring with the Starks for millennia, and a Stark king would literally be seen as bowing down to their greatest and oldest enemies. No way either of them agree to continue to be part of the kingdom, especially since the North already bailed out.

Dickie Dunn
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Postby Dickie Dunn » Mon May 20, 2019 4:00 pm

He's known what he wants the ending to be for like two decades now and still hasn't gotten there. If he decides to alter his plan there's no way in hell the books are ever getting finished.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Mon May 20, 2019 4:07 pm

This is a nitpick and doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. But...

Ok, Tyrion. Pump the breaks. Jaime has been in countless life or death situations. He was a hostage by your rivals. He got his hand cut off. He enlisted in a suicidal last stand against the dead. Let's not act totally caught off guard when he A) wants to go join another suicidal last stand and B) it doesn't work.

This was such a weird couple of episodes in that regard. Did I miss something in the 12 seconds of screen time they shared in this series that justified such an emotional reaction? Like...he didn't even die in an unseemly or unethical way. But sure...go bang rocks because your favorite dude prefers to bang his sister rather than act like a normal human. I get it. They're bros. They're family. They're buds. But f*** off with those tears. They don't track whatsoever.

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Postby slappybrown » Mon May 20, 2019 4:12 pm


As to the ending, the one thing that jumps out at me is I simply cannot imagine why Dorne and the Iron Islands would agree to stay. Dorne would have zero relationship with a Stark king and utterly no reason to not return to independent status. The Iron Islanders have been warring with the Starks for millennia, and a Stark king would literally be seen as bowing down to their greatest and oldest enemies. No way either of them agree to continue to be part of the kingdom, especially since the North already bailed out.
This is what happens when you have 20 episodes worth of plot and character development and do it in 13.

We had what has to be considered as the climax of the entire show: the most pivotal person in the story kills the other most pivotal person in the story and chooses to forsake becoming her husband and King of the Seven Kingdoms. His environment (raised as the son of Ned Stark) has triumphed over his genetics (the grandson of the Mad King by blood). Which is why the line he had about the words not being stamped on you at birth was the best line this season.

So now what?

We don’t see his capture. What he says. What Grey Worm does or says. How long has elapsed? Who knows!!

Someone (Sansa? Who knows). decides to convene a grand council. Where is the machinations that lead there? What do the Dormish say given they’re already Catalonian separatists as is with greater autonomy than any other kingdoms? Yara now rules iron Islands??? The remaining high lords just show up with no plan no position no idea of the purpose and ask Tyrion (???) to fix it? All of this should have been 3 eps pretty easily.

“In summary, Westeros is a land of contrasts” ass storytelling.

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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Mon May 20, 2019 4:20 pm

At least Jon gave Ghost lovins

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Mon May 20, 2019 4:20 pm

This is a nitpick and doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. But...

Ok, Tyrion. Pump the breaks. Jaime has been in countless life or death situations. He was a hostage by your rivals. He got his hand cut off. He enlisted in a suicidal last stand against the dead. Let's not act totally caught off guard when he A) wants to go join another suicidal last stand and B) it doesn't work.

This was such a weird couple of episodes in that regard. Did I miss something in the 12 seconds of screen time they shared in this series that justified such an emotional reaction? Like...he didn't even die in an unseemly or unethical way. But sure...go bang rocks because your favorite dude prefers to bang his sister rather than act like a normal human. I get it. They're bros. They're family. They're buds. But f*** off with those tears. They don't track whatsoever.
It's his only family member that he liked who also happened to save his life.

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Postby Spangler » Mon May 20, 2019 5:22 pm

This is a nitpick and doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. But...

Ok, Tyrion. Pump the breaks. Jaime has been in countless life or death situations. He was a hostage by your rivals. He got his hand cut off. He enlisted in a suicidal last stand against the dead. Let's not act totally caught off guard when he A) wants to go join another suicidal last stand and B) it doesn't work.

This was such a weird couple of episodes in that regard. Did I miss something in the 12 seconds of screen time they shared in this series that justified such an emotional reaction? Like...he didn't even die in an unseemly or unethical way. But sure...go bang rocks because your favorite dude prefers to bang his sister rather than act like a normal human. I get it. They're bros. They're family. They're buds. But f*** off with those tears. They don't track whatsoever.
I mean, everyone in the Lannister family literally wished Tyrion was never born, except for Jamie. He's the only one who treated him like family. That isn't good enough reason?

Rocco
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Postby Rocco » Mon May 20, 2019 5:22 pm

He's known what he wants the ending to be for like two decades now and still hasn't gotten there. If he decides to alter his plan there's no way in hell the books are ever getting finished.
He has no pages written. The books aren't getting finished. Nothing matters.

Spangler
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Postby Spangler » Mon May 20, 2019 5:38 pm

As a book reader, I was originally avoiding the show because I didn't want spoilers. But then I started reading summaries because I became more and more doubtful over time that GRRM would ever actually write the books. I wonder of the serious negative reaction to the ending might convince Martin to alter the ending when and if he actually gets to it. (Assuming, of course, that the show's ending is actually faithful to Martin's plans.) The hate toward the ending might make the books better.
Anything can happen, but based on an interview I watched, I don't think he would do that, or at least make any drastic changes. He talked about how it's a mistake to leave all these hints to build up certain outcomes in a story, only to rewrite them to throw the audience off because they figured it out.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Mon May 20, 2019 6:29 pm

This is a nitpick and doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. But...

Ok, Tyrion. Pump the breaks. Jaime has been in countless life or death situations. He was a hostage by your rivals. He got his hand cut off. He enlisted in a suicidal last stand against the dead. Let's not act totally caught off guard when he A) wants to go join another suicidal last stand and B) it doesn't work.

This was such a weird couple of episodes in that regard. Did I miss something in the 12 seconds of screen time they shared in this series that justified such an emotional reaction? Like...he didn't even die in an unseemly or unethical way. But sure...go bang rocks because your favorite dude prefers to bang his sister rather than act like a normal human. I get it. They're bros. They're family. They're buds. But f*** off with those tears. They don't track whatsoever.
I mean, everyone in the Lannister family literally wished Tyrion was never born, except for Jamie. He's the only one who treated him like family. That isn't good enough reason?
The purpose of the scene was to drive the wedge further between him and Dany. Slamming a rock why exactly? What’s the outrage? If Jaime wasn’t under rubble, he’d be figuring out some way to get back to his sister. His death itself wasn’t a tragedy. His life was.

Grief? Sure. Sounds reasonable. Have a cry or 2. But the show was trying to sell something here that smelled funny.

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Postby meow » Mon May 20, 2019 6:35 pm

You smell funny

Sam's Drunk Dog
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Postby Sam's Drunk Dog » Mon May 20, 2019 7:13 pm

My God, what a mess of an ending. Things that make absolutely no sense:

Drogon melting the Iron Throne.
Greyworm keeping Jon Snow as a prisoner and not killing him at first sight.
The Iron Islands and Dorne just agreeing to the North being free while they stay part of the 7 6 kingdoms.
Bronn being the Master of Coin.
The wildlings waiting around for weeks/months until Jon Snow gets there before going to the other side of the wall.

Dickie Dunn
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Postby Dickie Dunn » Mon May 20, 2019 7:17 pm

My God, what a mess of an ending. Things that make absolutely no sense:

Drogon melting the Iron Throne.
Greyworm keeping Jon Snow as a prisoner and not killing him at first sight.
The Iron Islands and Dorne just agreeing to the North being free while they stay part of the 7 6 kingdoms.
Bronn being the Master of Coin.
The wildlings waiting around for weeks/months until Jon Snow gets there before going to the other side of the wall.
- Dumb
- I'm pretty sure Greyworm is incapable of making a decision on his own and needs someone higher ranking than him to tell him what to do, but regardless it's kinda dumb.
- Pretty dumb, especially since Dany already said she'd make The Iron Islands free.
- As Lord of Highgarden (dumb) doesn't he have like all money now?
- He probably sent a raven for them to hold up. Or maybe they planned to just chill there until he showed up and said let's blow this Popsicle stand.

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Postby Sam's Drunk Dog » Mon May 20, 2019 7:21 pm

I thought all the gold from Highgarden was looted by Cersei and used to pay the Golden Company or was burned by Dany during the supply train attack

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Postby Sam's Drunk Dog » Mon May 20, 2019 7:23 pm

Oh, and I could see Tormund coming back to greet him, but not an entire group of them just chilling.

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