Game of Thrones Discussion

shmenguin
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby shmenguin » Tue May 14, 2019 3:29 pm

I do think, however, that Cersei's death was perfect and downright poetic.
explain
She could've been killed by a lot of different people in a lot of different way and most of these endings would have ultimately been cheap and satisfying only in the moment. I know that many people wanted to see her suffer, which isn't really my thing, but I like this death (let's assume she's dead. Please let her be dead) because of its ambivalence. On the one hand she appears to be finally at peace - albeit broken and defeated - and gets to die in the arms of her one true love, *sniffle*, instead of being flayed or burned or eaten or whatever, so there's a certain mercy in that, on the other hand it is also a truly *****y death, in that it is anonymous and completely lacking in glamour and greatness. She said herself that she didn't want to leave this way. And let's not forget that she ends up literally being buried by/under her house, the symbol of her power.
it's problematic in 2 ways:

1) nobody has any clue where she is. if she escaped. who she may have been with. etc. this doesn't matter for half the people in this thread, of course.

2) she didn't deserve anything resembling peace before she died. we've had to endure the heroes getting kicked in the balls over and over for this entire series, and at the end, the big bad gets a merciful sendoff. i didn't need gore or violence. but i needed suffering. betrayal. like...anything other than being embraced by Jaime. it smells funny. i don't like it. this story commands a big payoff at some point. this wasn't that. "not like this" she said. then how, exactly? seems pretty optimal all things considered.
Last edited by shmenguin on Tue May 14, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

meecrofilm
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby meecrofilm » Tue May 14, 2019 3:29 pm

You are almost there, shmenguin. Keep taking steps to the sane side
this is as far as my ticket takes me. they know how to make good spectacle. they don't know how to tell a story. certain types of people like dickie d...no too obvious...d dunn - they don't like to think about story. hurts their brains. but i think it matters for THIS particular show - despite dragons and zombies and ****.
This isn’t true. Everyone is thinking about the story. We just aren’t dissecting it to the millionth degree. It’s entertaining. And if some plot holes and wonky character arcs make you not enjoy it, then that’s too bad.
That's literally 100% of what makes a story. It's well worth criticizing when something that was done so well for so long has been completely abandoned. If you watched Thrones for the compelling characters and intricate story development, you're allowed to feel shortchanged when it all of a sudden goes to ****.
Dany's arc was inevitable. The clues have always been there.
I agree with that. I just meant that he left it up to them to tell that story, which was done in like three scenes.
Yeah, I think we all agree that the last two seasons were rushed, to say the least.
Yeah, and that's why my gripe is way more with Martin than it is with D&D.

Absent the requisite source material, they are left to simply land this plane. Even with so much to happen and so few episodes to do it, nothing is happening. It's just barreling towards the endgame, with almost unflinching inevitability. But what other option do they have? All they were left with was:

- Someone has to kill the NK to destroy the undead army
- Dany becomes the mad queen.

I suppose they could have accomplished this over three full seasons, and the only way they probably could have done that would have been from having books.
They had the option to take HBO's initial offer for Seasons 7 and 8 to be full-length seasons. They didn't want to though, and said they could wrap up the story in 14-15 hours. They were dead wrong, and absolutely deserve blame. More than likely, they were over it, and found it to be too much work without source material to go off, and just wanted to make some sparkly fireworks and peace out, which is what we're seeing.

shmenguin
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby shmenguin » Tue May 14, 2019 3:33 pm

We just aren’t dissecting it to the millionth degree.

...

You’re worried that the chief zombie baddie didn’t have enough known motives to want to murder a crippled teenager than can see into the past and control retarded giants.
to which degree is this particular dissection?
This is part of the problem. I don’t even know what you are talking about at this point
you distill the plot to zombies and retarded giants. you don't consume this series in a fashion of someone who "cares about the story". there's a spectrum here, of course. i find you closer to NAN than the nerds on reddit who write dissertations about 3 pages of text.

Gaucho
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby Gaucho » Tue May 14, 2019 3:39 pm

I do think, however, that Cersei's death was perfect and downright poetic.
explain
She could've been killed by a lot of different people in a lot of different way and most of these endings would have ultimately been cheap and satisfying only in the moment. I know that many people wanted to see her suffer, which isn't really my thing, but I like this death (let's assume she's dead. Please let her be dead) because of its ambivalence. On the one hand she appears to be finally at peace - albeit broken and defeated - and gets to die in the arms of her one true love, *sniffle*, instead of being flayed or burned or eaten or whatever, so there's a certain mercy in that, on the other hand it is also a truly *****y death, in that it is anonymous and completely lacking in glamour and greatness. She said herself that she didn't want to leave this way. And let's not forget that she ends up literally being buried by/under her house, the symbol of her power.
it's problematic in 2 ways:

1) nobody has any clue where she is. if she escaped. who she may have been with. etc. this doesn't matter for half the people in this thread, of course.

2) she didn't deserve anything resembling peace before she died. we've had to endure the heroes getting kicked in the balls over and over for this entire series, and at the end, the big bad gets a merciful sendoff. i didn't need gore or violence. but i needed suffering. betrayal. like...anything other than being embraced by Jaime. it smells funny. i don't like it. this story commands a big payoff at some point. this wasn't that. "not like this" she said. then how, exactly? seems pretty optimal all things considered.
I actually like 1), because an anonymous death is cruel in its own way, at least for someone like Cersei. As for 2), I get it, I'm sure a lot of people feel that way. I'm soft.

meow
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby meow » Tue May 14, 2019 3:43 pm

We just aren’t dissecting it to the millionth degree.

...

You’re worried that the chief zombie baddie didn’t have enough known motives to want to murder a crippled teenager than can see into the past and control retarded giants.
to which degree is this particular dissection?
This is part of the problem. I don’t even know what you are talking about at this point
you distill the plot to zombies and retarded giants. you don't consume this series in a fashion of someone who "cares about the story". there's a spectrum here, of course. i find you closer to NAN than the nerds on reddit who write dissertations about 3 pages of text.
I think you should take a knee and sit the next couple of plays out. This is getting embarrassing

NAN
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby NAN » Tue May 14, 2019 3:45 pm

We just aren’t dissecting it to the millionth degree.

...

You’re worried that the chief zombie baddie didn’t have enough known motives to want to murder a crippled teenager than can see into the past and control retarded giants.
to which degree is this particular dissection?
This is part of the problem. I don’t even know what you are talking about at this point
you distill the plot to zombies and retarded giants. you don't consume this series in a fashion of someone who "cares about the story". there's a spectrum here, of course. i find you closer to NAN than the nerds on reddit who write dissertations about 3 pages of text.
I think you should take a knee and sit the next couple of plays out. This is getting embarrassing
:thumb:

blackjack68
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby blackjack68 » Tue May 14, 2019 3:50 pm

Which is funny because my son walked in during CleganeBowl and immediately said, that big guy has the high ground. He should win.

shmenguin
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby shmenguin » Tue May 14, 2019 3:52 pm

We just aren’t dissecting it to the millionth degree.

...

You’re worried that the chief zombie baddie didn’t have enough known motives to want to murder a crippled teenager than can see into the past and control retarded giants.
to which degree is this particular dissection?
This is part of the problem. I don’t even know what you are talking about at this point
you distill the plot to zombies and retarded giants. you don't consume this series in a fashion of someone who "cares about the story". there's a spectrum here, of course. i find you closer to NAN than the nerds on reddit who write dissertations about 3 pages of text.
I think you should take a knee and sit the next couple of plays out. This is getting embarrassing
you realize you're saying that literally millions of people have no clue what they're talking about, with this same identical take that i have. like...i understand your PoV. it's fine. you watch for one reason. i watch for another. i wouldn't get smarmy about it if i wasn't being cast as a whiny Canaan about it.

i'm not calling you an idiot. i'm saying you don't take this show particularly seriously. prove me wrong, i guess. or just agree to disaghree.

Dickie Dunn
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue May 14, 2019 4:03 pm

For real. You guys need to do a better job at consuming this stuff. It’s serious business.

meow
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby meow » Tue May 14, 2019 4:06 pm



to which degree is this particular dissection?
This is part of the problem. I don’t even know what you are talking about at this point
you distill the plot to zombies and retarded giants. you don't consume this series in a fashion of someone who "cares about the story". there's a spectrum here, of course. i find you closer to NAN than the nerds on reddit who write dissertations about 3 pages of text.
I think you should take a knee and sit the next couple of plays out. This is getting embarrassing
you realize you're saying that literally millions of people have no clue what they're talking about, with this same identical take that i have. like...i understand your PoV. it's fine. you watch for one reason. i watch for another. i wouldn't get smarmy about it if i wasn't being cast as a whiny Canaan about it.

i'm not calling you an idiot. i'm saying you don't take this show particularly seriously. prove me wrong, i guess. or just agree to disaghree.
Literally millions of people agree with your takes? Ok bud.

willeyeam
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby willeyeam » Tue May 14, 2019 4:09 pm

wtf happened here

meow
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby meow » Tue May 14, 2019 4:11 pm

wtf happened here
I think we figured out there are two groups of GoT viewers. Shmenguin and those of us that have to watch better

willeyeam
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby willeyeam » Tue May 14, 2019 4:13 pm

quick accounting of who didn't appear in last episode that might play a role in the finale:

Sansa
Bran
Yara
Brienne
Bronn
Samwell

I could see Samwell just being content now. Yara might mind her own beeswax on the iron isles and be out of it all now, or play a part in jon vs dany. Sansa and Bran, who tf knows there, wildcards. Is there a place for Bronn or Brienne anymore?

nocera
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby nocera » Tue May 14, 2019 4:13 pm

:lol: Suddenly I feel less bad about the White Knight comment...

I don't understand why it's become an 'us vs them' kind of thing. Liking a show is subjective. There is no right answer.

willeyeam
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby willeyeam » Tue May 14, 2019 4:13 pm

wtf happened here
I think we figured out there are two groups of GoT viewers. Shmenguin and those of us that have to watch better
:lol:

Troy Loney
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby Troy Loney » Tue May 14, 2019 4:16 pm

wtf happened here
I think meecro hit the nail on the head last page.

We waited two years to get the the conclusion of this show. We got an extended superhero movie, the special effects and battle scenes are great, but it seems like a pretty non-controversial take to infer that we got visual fluff at the expense of plot. It would seem naive to assume lots of people aren't happy about that.

shmenguin
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby shmenguin » Tue May 14, 2019 4:21 pm

Literally millions of people agree with your takes? Ok bud.
i'm not pulling this out of my butt. there are 500,000+ subscribers to the annoying Canaan subreddit related to this show. and it's been a big circle jerk about how much this season has failed. even r/freefolk has turned cynical. and they're the official fanboy sub. there's another 600,000 (with some overlap of that 500,000). i think it's doubtful that everyone who hates the season is currently on reddit. you wanna quibble about those numbers (not all 500+600K are miserable of course), or cite how you don't understand reddit, have at it. but there's a big sweeping backlash going on, and my talking points certainly overlap with it.

i think you feel attacked because you're inferring that i'm calling you and team spectacle idiots because you aren't smart enough to understand a TV show. that's absurd. like i said - you just have different expectations.

nocera
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby nocera » Tue May 14, 2019 4:25 pm

The initial haters are always the most vocal. Last Jedi suffered through the same thing. Eventually, one person will post "DAE love season 8!?" and the circle jerk cycle will continue but in the opposite direction.

slappybrown
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby slappybrown » Tue May 14, 2019 4:28 pm

im a big shmengy guy (non-NFL RB division) and I dont think his takes in this thread concerning this season are particularly unique. I also dont understand the response of "just enjoy it"; thats what dunderheads say. I think the show's first 5 seasons or so were some of the best TV ive ever seen. Its sad and disappointing that zombie heist plus the cluster that is this season are damaging that legacy. That doesnt mean I dont enjoy things or am walking the streets with a bullhorn yelling about D&D destroying a beloved series. from my vantage point, the mild critiques offered in the first couple eps of this season caused the reactionaries to get super sensitive about the show even though I think the criticisms were valid, and were only borne out by the show's continued rush to get to an ending, storytelling be damned. I also agree that Meecro summed up a lot of people's feelings pretty well as troy noted.

meow
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby meow » Tue May 14, 2019 4:29 pm

I don’t think anyone is feeling attacked. I know I’m certainly not. I am astounded by your stubbornness, however.

willeyeam
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby willeyeam » Tue May 14, 2019 4:31 pm

I don’t think anyone is feeling attacked. I know I’m certainly not. I am astounded by your stubbornness, however.
listen pal, r/freefolk is DISGUSTED

shmenguin
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby shmenguin » Tue May 14, 2019 4:36 pm

im a big shmengy guy (non-NFL RB division) and I dont think his takes in this thread concerning this season are particularly unique. I also dont understand the response of "just enjoy it"; thats what dunderheads say. I think the show's first 5 seasons or so were some of the best TV ive ever seen. Its sad and disappointing that zombie heist plus the cluster that is this season are damaging that legacy. That doesnt mean I dont enjoy things or am walking the streets with a bullhorn yelling about D&D destroying a beloved series. from my vantage point, the mild critiques offered in the first couple eps of this season caused the reactionaries to get super sensitive about the show even though I think the criticisms were valid, and were only borne out by the show's continued rush to get to an ending, storytelling be damned. I also agree that Meecro summed up a lot of people's feelings pretty well as troy noted.
just want to point out that meow's top hype man in this thread is NAN, by comparison.

skullman80
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby skullman80 » Tue May 14, 2019 4:36 pm

im a big shmengy guy (non-NFL RB division) and I dont think his takes in this thread concerning this season are particularly unique. I also dont understand the response of "just enjoy it"; thats what dunderheads say. I think the show's first 5 seasons or so were some of the best TV ive ever seen. Its sad and disappointing that zombie heist plus the cluster that is this season are damaging that legacy. That doesnt mean I dont enjoy things or am walking the streets with a bullhorn yelling about D&D destroying a beloved series. from my vantage point, the mild critiques offered in the first couple eps of this season caused the reactionaries to get super sensitive about the show even though I think the criticisms were valid, and were only borne out by the show's continued rush to get to an ending, storytelling be damned. I also agree that Meecro summed up a lot of people's feelings pretty well as troy noted.
Season 5 was largely a mess except for Hardhome. Season 6 wasn't awful, but seasons 1-4 were top notch TV. I largely agree with this though in general.

eddy
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby eddy » Tue May 14, 2019 4:38 pm

quick accounting of who didn't appear in last episode that might play a role in the finale:

Sansa
Bran
Yara
Brienne
Bronn
Samwell

I could see Samwell just being content now. Yara might mind her own beeswax on the iron isles and be out of it all now, or play a part in jon vs dany. Sansa and Bran, who tf knows there, wildcards. Is there a place for Bronn or Brienne anymore?
Only thing that makes sense for bronn to show up is saving Tyrion from Dany. Can't think of anything else.

meow
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Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby meow » Tue May 14, 2019 4:47 pm

You got me thinking DD and NAN are levelheaded. NAN!

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