Game of Thrones Discussion

[eddy]

she's been talking about it since the beginning.

nope. she talked about the first part. where she would win the war by using her nuke. she didn't talk about slaughtering the entire city after the war was over. that was improv. she "yes and'ed" the **** out of that day.

in the clips above, she literally says

"When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who wronged me! We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground!"

she has family issues and the people of KL never ended up fighting for her when she was told they were. She was already going off the deep end and she lost it sitting there looking at the keep that her family built.

Like I said, it's been coming, but the way they rushed to it didn't make it feel like how it was supposed to happen.

she literally just did the worst thing that anyone has ever done during the entire course of human history. this was not the intent of her quote - and it certainly wasn't intentional foreshadowing. she legit had a psychotic break last night. there wasn't even any cause whatsoever for Varys or Tyrion to be worried about an incident like this. THAT'S how batshit it was.

to be fair, Aegon, Tywin and Cersei all did the same thing. Tywin and Cersei not to the extent of Aegon.

[DigitalGypsy66]

You know what grinds my gears (and not just about GOT) are the sanctimonious pricks that go online to pronounce that they've never watched GoT, never read the books, and don't care about it. I see these every Sunday evening, as I'm filtering through social media to get reactions, hot takes, and whatnot.

Who cares what you think? Why does it matter? Why do you have to belittle something others enjoy (or follow lol)?

[shmenguin]

to be fair, Aegon, Tywin and Cersei all did the same thing. Tywin and Cersei not to the extent of Aegon.

they didn't. aegon was about to die one way or the other, and was trying to stop the siege. he also had a long history of being batshit crazy. "burn them all" was on-brand, to say the least.

tywin did what now?

and cersei blowing up the sept was tactical. like aegon, it was either THAT or just hand yourself over.

[meecrofilm]

I thought this was a great writeup for the episode

https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2019/05/13 ... -the-bells

There was definitely a satisfying conclusion to the story of Euron Greyjoy

this is emblematic of the article as a whole.

2/10. would not read again.

Oh my goodness, thanks for sparing me the time

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thron ... -eastwatch

I mean, counter (from probably the original article you read with the sublink you linked?): https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thron ... -mad-queen

[meecrofilm]

she literally just did the worst thing that anyone has ever done during the entire course of human history. this was not the intent of her quote - and it certainly wasn't intentional foreshadowing. she legit had a psychotic break last night. there wasn't even any cause whatsoever for Varys or Tyrion to be worried about an incident like this. THAT'S how batshit it was.

Yes, we can cherry-pick a few quotes, or we can look at the vast amount of action-oriented evidence that suggests the contrary.

Again, if the Dany heel turn was always in the cards, that's perfectly fine. But they totally **** up the endgame, both in causation and effect.

[NAN]

Since they announced there would only be 6 episodes this season, you knew it would be rushed. Not saying it's right or wrong, but they have to wrap all this crap up in 6 hours. Wish it could have been a full season.

agree. I think most people have made completely valid arguments and a lot of these issues were discussing comes from the simple fact that they are rushing and getting to the point because of this. not ideal, but that's what it is.

I think the other thing compounding things is people have waiting a year and a half for this. And for it to be rushed is a bit disappointing after people invested almost 10 years into this show.

I don't mind the episodes, it's entertainment to me and I don't dig too deep into every little detail. But I think all of this over an additional 4 episodes would have helped. I can't imagine how they fit everything into 1 episode next week.

[shmenguin]

I thought this was a great writeup for the episode

https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2019/05/13 ... -the-bells

There was definitely a satisfying conclusion to the story of Euron Greyjoy

this is emblematic of the article as a whole.

2/10. would not read again.

Oh my goodness, thanks for sparing me the time

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thron ... -eastwatch

I mean, counter (from probably the original article you read with the sublink you linked?): https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thron ... -mad-queen

the people who do the ringer's podcast for this show are such insufferable cheerleaders. i haven't checked in with them this season...wonder if they're still like Dickie at 10:01pm EST on a Sunday or if they're as bummed out as everyone else.

[eddy]

Source of the post tywin did what now?

From the The Rains of Castamere

But now the rains weep o’er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o’er his hall,
and not a soul to hear

Tywin ordered the sealing of Castamere's entrances and the diverting of nearby water into the mine, causing the deaths of all within

[shmenguin]

Source of the post tywin did what now?

From the The Rains of Castamere

But now the rains weep o’er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o’er his hall,
and not a soul to hear

Tywin ordered the sealing of Castamere's entrances and the diverting of nearby water into the mine, causing the deaths of all within

i don't think this was a half a million or so people getting killed...but regardless. it's another thing where there was some sort of tactical gain here. as opposed to last night which was literally the opposite

[eddy]

I thought this was a great writeup for the episode

https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2019/05/13 ... -the-bells

There was definitely a satisfying conclusion to the story of Euron Greyjoy

this is emblematic of the article as a whole.

2/10. would not read again.

Oh my goodness, thanks for sparing me the time

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thron ... -eastwatch

I mean, counter (from probably the original article you read with the sublink you linked?): https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thron ... -mad-queen

yep and like I said above, it wasn't ideal how they portrayed this, but that's what happens when they compress the season like they did.

[meecrofilm]

the people who do the ringer's podcast for this show are such insufferable cheerleaders. i haven't checked in with them this season...wonder if they're still like Dickie at 10:01pm EST on a Sunday or if they're as bummed out as everyone else.

The majority of the written content is negative. Can't speak to the podcast.

she literally just did the worst thing that anyone has ever done during the entire course of human history. this was not the intent of her quote - and it certainly wasn't intentional foreshadowing. she legit had a psychotic break last night. there wasn't even any cause whatsoever for Varys or Tyrion to be worried about an incident like this. THAT'S how batshit it was.

Also, yet another casualty of the rushed timeline. If Dany loses it a "little," and, say, flies Drogon at the Red Keep and burns Cersei et. al and the whole building down (which inevitably results in some innocent casualties), it gives everyone involved a bit more grey area to explore in whether or not she's truly mad / completely lost it. However, with the shortened amount of episodes, there is simply no time to do such a thing, so they made her cartoonishly evil so as to remove any shadow of a doubt, so it can all be wrapped up in the ensuing episode.

[eddy]

Source of the post tywin did what now?

From the The Rains of Castamere

But now the rains weep o’er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o’er his hall,
and not a soul to hear

Tywin ordered the sealing of Castamere's entrances and the diverting of nearby water into the mine, causing the deaths of all within

i don't think this was a half a million or so people getting killed...but regardless. it's another thing where there was some sort of tactical gain here. as opposed to last night which was literally the opposite

I think we are both saying the same thing, but I'm just more OK with it now realizing that's just how it's going to be with the compressed season. Yeah it sucks that we've had this smart (maybe? kinda?) storytelling from the beginning and are now forced into this, but they've chosen style over substance to end it and what else can we do?

[Troy Loney]

Not sure why, but I was good with Dany's decision. Her calculation makes sense to me, the only support she has in Westeros is her army. Tyrion is worthless and while everyone love's Jon Snow, all the strong characters walk all over him. And Jon is not loyal to her, even though what she asked was not reasonable, but she has no claim to the throne because of his birthright. So right, they ousted Cersei, but then what? Varys was already rallying houses for Jon Snow and she'd have zero loyalty from the Starks in Winterfell, Sansa would wipe her ass with request from Jon. So, rule from strength.

I think unfortunately Sansa and Arya will get to Jon and he'll find a way to stab Dany in the back, and that will be the big ending.

[shmenguin]

Also, yet another casualty of the rushed timeline. If Dany loses it a "little," and, say, flies Drogon at the Red Keep and burns Cersei et. al and the whole building down (which inevitably results in some innocent casualties), it gives everyone involved a bit more grey area to explore in whether or not she's truly mad / completely lost it. However, with the shortened amount of episodes, there is simply no time to do such a thing, so they made her cartoonishly evil so as to remove any shadow of a doubt, so it can all be wrapped up in the ensuing episode.

i don't think just burning the red keep leads to "great. now we have to kill her". she had to go off the rails more than that, where she did something completely unreasonable. they were just missing SOME degree of provocation. maybe Missandei's body parts were put on a spike somewhere, like Ned's were, and she did a fly by and freaked. or you know...set something thoughtful up over the course of 75 episodes. that would work too.

[Spangler]

I posted this on another board, and I'll post it here.

If people call Dany the Mad Queen, doesn't her actions have to kinda NOT make sense? Hence using the the word 'mad'. She's not the "Logically Justifiable Queen".

She's had a long history of doing messed up **** on this show, it's just they were done for the "greater good", at least in her mind.

Burned a woman alive for tricking her into surrendering her unborn child
Burned all the past Dothraki queens alive in their hut.
Sealed her handmaiden and Xaro Xhoan Daxos in a room when they betrayed her.
Crucified all the slavers, even the ones who treated their slaves well, without a trial
Seemingly enjoyed seeing her brother get his head melted off.
Burned a bunched of surrendering Lannister soldiers alive because they weren't on her side.

Keep in mind she gained the respect of perhaps the most ruthless army in the world in the Dothraki. She doesn't do that by being soft. I'm sure there are more examples, but this is all I can think of off the top of my head.

[shmenguin]

Not sure why, but I was good with Dany's decision. Her calculation makes sense to me, the only support she has in Westeros is her army. Tyrion is worthless and while everyone love's Jon Snow, all the strong characters walk all over him. And Jon is not loyal to her, even though what she asked was not reasonable, but she has no claim to the throne because of his birthright. So right, they ousted Cersei, but then what? Varys was already rallying houses for Jon Snow and she'd have zero loyalty from the Starks in Winterfell, Sansa would wipe her ass with request from Jon. So, rule from strength.

I think unfortunately Sansa and Arya will get to Jon and he'll find a way to stab Dany in the back, and that will be the big ending.

Calculation? this wasn't a measured battle decision. she freaked out. your point holds water if this at all is related to "ruling from strength". the part where she won the war by herself was ruling from strength. the stuff that came after was inspiration for people to invest in giant arrows and try to kill her only claim to the throne on her next publicity tour.

[eddy]

Also, yet another casualty of the rushed timeline. If Dany loses it a "little," and, say, flies Drogon at the Red Keep and burns Cersei et. al and the whole building down (which inevitably results in some innocent casualties), it gives everyone involved a bit more grey area to explore in whether or not she's truly mad / completely lost it. However, with the shortened amount of episodes, there is simply no time to do such a thing, so they made her cartoonishly evil so as to remove any shadow of a doubt, so it can all be wrapped up in the ensuing episode.

i don't think just burning the red keep leads to "great. now we have to kill her". she had to go off the rails more than that, where she did something completely unreasonable. they were just missing SOME degree of provocation. maybe Missandei's body parts were put on a spike somewhere, like Ned's were, and she did a fly by and freaked. or you know...set something thoughtful up over the course of 75 episodes. that would work too.

Jorah, Khal Drago, Dothraki army, her brother, other family history, Missandei, 2 dragons, and now Jon. I'm OK with her losing it.

[shmenguin]

small nitpick...missandei is captured by the worst person in the world (at the time). she gets killed in a relatively humane way, and dany and greyworm were...surprised?

like...what was the best outcome there? they'd negotiate for peace and she'd be freed? when dany storms the city, she'd somehow survive? missandei is a lamewad tipping point, imo.

[eddy]

so the gold companies capt horse and Ayra, is this some ridiculous death rides a pale horse biblical metaphor, did Bran warg it for her even though at that point, she could've just walked out or something else? what was the point of that?

[slappybrown]

I immediately thought it was an Arya as the personification of death visual

[shafnutz05]

to be fair, Aegon, Tywin and Cersei all did the same thing. Tywin and Cersei not to the extent of Aegon.

they didn't. aegon was about to die one way or the other, and was trying to stop the siege. he also had a long history of being batshit crazy. "burn them all" was on-brand, to say the least.

tywin did what now?

and cersei blowing up the sept was tactical. like aegon, it was either THAT or just hand yourself over.

You guys mean "Aerys", right? Aegon was the conqueror, Aerys was the Mad King. Thanks.

[shmenguin]

I immediately thought it was an Arya as the personification of death visual

but she was ultimately a shepherd last night. she told death to cram it when she separated from the hound. so did dany's theatrics make her part of team death again?

[meecrofilm]

I think unfortunately Sansa and Arya will get to Jon and he'll find a way to stab Dany in the back, and that will be the big ending.

Expect it won't be a big ending at all -- it will hold zero emotional weight because Dany went cartoonishly far in her "mad" turn, pushing her past any point of sympathy/irredeemability. So who cares if she gets shanked, she deserves it and then some. Snore.

Also, yet another casualty of the rushed timeline. If Dany loses it a "little," and, say, flies Drogon at the Red Keep and burns Cersei et. al and the whole building down (which inevitably results in some innocent casualties), it gives everyone involved a bit more grey area to explore in whether or not she's truly mad / completely lost it. However, with the shortened amount of episodes, there is simply no time to do such a thing, so they made her cartoonishly evil so as to remove any shadow of a doubt, so it can all be wrapped up in the ensuing episode.

i don't think just burning the red keep leads to "great. now we have to kill her". she had to go off the rails more than that, where she did something completely unreasonable. they were just missing SOME degree of provocation. maybe Missandei's body parts were put on a spike somewhere, like Ned's were, and she did a fly by and freaked. or you know...set something thoughtful up over the course of 75 episodes. that would work too.

Well yeah, the point is to do something that's borderline. Not "great, now we have to kill her" but also not "She's still got it together" either. But there wasn't any time left for anything but the former, so here we are.

Burned a woman alive for tricking her into surrendering her unborn child
Burned all the past Dothraki queens alive in their hut.
Sealed her handmaiden and Xaro Xhoan Daxos in a room when they betrayed her.
Crucified all the slavers, even the ones who treated their slaves well, without a trial
Seemingly enjoyed seeing her brother get his head melted off.
Burned a bunched of surrendering Lannister soldiers alive because they weren't on her side.

None of this sets any precedence for the mass genocide of innocent civilians. All of the above victims had skin in the game to some degree. If anything, it establishes a clear character trait that she is capable of drawing a very defined line in regard to her ruthlessness. They did an ass job of setting up an event of this magnitude. It was essentially the horror-movie equivalent of a jump scare.

Honestly, the most brazen part of whole thing is, that whole ridiculous "here's an audio-montage of all the things said about Dany" shot during the "previously on" part of the episode is essentially Benioff and Weiss admitting they did a **** job of setting that up. "Oh, btw, here's all THIS to remind you that, like, she could snap at any minute! Remember how sometimes she was kind of crazy sometimes?!"

[PFiDC]

Aaaaaaand now they forgot to keep Jamie's gold hand on during his final scene. What a **** show...

[Dickie Dunn]

Aaaaaaand now they forgot to keep Jamie's gold hand on during his final scene. What a **** show...

That was just an unedited promo shot. His hand is gold during the scene.