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LITT
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Postby LITT » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:44 pm

people who watch/follow college, how do you feel about the top college QB prospects?

there seems to be a lot of hype around them but LA QBs are always overhyped. And Baker Mayfield strikes me as Manziel 2.0. And Lamar Jackson strikes me as Robert Griffin 4.0.

whoever it is i look forward to the browns drafting not that person, drafting someone else, that person struggling and the person they passed becoming a HOFer

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:47 pm

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/12/12/167 ... ll-of-fame

Should Devin Hester go into the HOF?

In the couple of minutes it took me to read this article and make this post, the answer is yes imo. Will he? Probably not.
i don't know the answer, but this is some good advice for you kids out there looking to make it in the pros: "act like you're the best player on the field, then back it up."

that's all it takes. just be able to be the best player on the field, stupid.

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:56 pm

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/12/12/167 ... ll-of-fame

Should Devin Hester go into the HOF?

In the couple of minutes it took me to read this article and make this post, the answer is yes imo. Will he? Probably not.
He should. Similar to Ray Guy, the greatest player at a position should get in (for positions that "matter". The greatest longsnapper doesn't have to get in) and Hester is the greatest returner ever. His opening TD in the 2006 Super Bowl is one of the most thrilling plays in any sport I've seen

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:00 pm

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/12/12/167 ... ll-of-fame

Should Devin Hester go into the HOF?

In the couple of minutes it took me to read this article and make this post, the answer is yes imo. Will he? Probably not.
Yes. Best returner to ever play the game. Was probably the MVP of that bears team.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:24 pm

slappy, thanks for sharing that. I guess I hadn't even thought about it (and just now heard he was retiring). I initially would have reacted with a quick "of course not", but I definitely see the case to put him in the HOF. As others have stated, if you are the best to ever play your position, you need to be in. He was a joy to watch.

slappybrown
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Postby slappybrown » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:23 pm

slappy, thanks for sharing that. I guess I hadn't even thought about it (and just now heard he was retiring). I initially would have reacted with a quick "of course not", but I definitely see the case to put him in the HOF. As others have stated, if you are the best to ever play your position, you need to be in. He was a joy to watch.
shafnutz05, you are welcome. I am glad that you enjoyed the article and that it was thought-provoking for you.

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:33 pm

dude's got 19 career touchdowns gtfoh

mikey
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Postby mikey » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:37 pm

So, special teams standouts do not belong in the HOF is the official positions? How does this affect coaches, officials, other people that impact the game without scoring touchdowns as well...?

NTP66
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Postby NTP66 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:42 pm

I come bearing positive news:
Some help on the way for the #Steelers defense: CB Joe Haden will practice this week after missing a month with a broken leg.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:46 pm

dude's got 19 career touchdowns gtfoh

He had 19 career return touchdowns, that doesn’t include offensive.

I mean if you are going to argue he shouldn’t be in at least get his stats right.

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Postby willeyeam » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:49 pm

So, special teams standouts do not belong in the HOF is the official positions? How does this affect coaches, officials, other people that impact the game without scoring touchdowns as well...?
Coaches impact every play. To me he's like a DH who only had one at-bat a game. He's the best ever at what he did but imo it's not enough of an impact.

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Postby willeyeam » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:55 pm

There are 6 punters and kickers in the hall, so taking that into account, he should be in. I don't personally think any kicker or punter or return guy makes enough of an impact to be in.

It's hard for me to make a case any kicker, punter or Hester deserves to be in when guys like TO, Terrell Davis, Atwater are still waiting..

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:55 pm

Hester actually has more return TDs than offensive TDs.
Last edited by tifosi77 on Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:55 pm

There's a punter in the HOF, why can't the best kick returner in NFL history* also be in there?

*-Disclaimer: I do not know if he's the best in NFL history, just asking a question.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:58 pm

There are 6 punters and kickers in the hall, so taking that into account, he should be in. I don't personally think any kicker or punter or return guy makes enough of an impact to be in.

It's hard for me to make a case any kicker, punter or Hester deserves to be in when guys like TO, Terrell Davis, Atwater are still waiting..

When you’re the best ever at your position, you’re in.

So Adam Vinatieri didn’t make an impact during his years?

mikey
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Postby mikey » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:00 pm

Well, before we get to that argument of "let's compound mistakes because player X is in"...let's establish the idea that certain positions are not eligible for the HOF. That sounds like that's the definitive stance...players need to have an impact more than return men, kickers, punters...I'm not sure how far down the lines that goes from there...fullbacks (pre-2000, when they were actually on rosters)...?

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Postby mikey » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:01 pm

Terrell Davis is in...and he only played for four seasons really...how do you weight the "impact" argument there...

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Postby slappybrown » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:02 pm

I dont have an issue with specialists going in. Its an extremely important part of the game, and I think the Hall has been picky enough with them that its not watered down. I personally do not take a "definitive stance" that players need to have an impact beyond being a kicker or return guy. You just have to be insanely good at those things to even warrant a look, let alone entry.

slappybrown
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Postby slappybrown » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:03 pm

Terrell Davis is in...and he only played for four seasons really...how do you weight the "impact" argument there...
I would not have voted for Terrell Davis (and its not even close imo), but I would have voted for Kurt Warner.

mikey
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Postby mikey » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:05 pm

Yeah, four impact seasons out of four is something...but it's not like he passed away, he wore down and then was out...four impact seasons with nothing around it sets an interesting precedent...makes Kurt Warner a pretty easy play though, and it rewards prime peak big time...


edited to be more accurate.

slappybrown
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Postby slappybrown » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:08 pm

Yeah, four impact seasons out of four is something...but it's not like he passed away, he wore down and then was out...four impact seasons with nothing around it sets an interesting precedent...makes Kurt Warner a pretty easy play though, and it rewards prime big time...
I think you're even being generous with calling it four impact seasons. He had two HOF-caliber seasons, one borderline HOF caliberseason, and then one merely good season. Davis in the Hall is probably the worst HOF decision in football I can recall off the top of my head. This will set MIMH off, but he does not belong in the HOF at all imo.

mikey
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Postby mikey » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:14 pm

"Impact" is a nebulous term to represent a season in which something positive was added to a resume. I think his rookie season qualifies as such.

All-Rookie Team, Second Team All-AFC, 9th in rushing yds (6th in per game), 4th in yards/carry...that's very clearly a positive season, it's very clearly a part of his prime and would be considered a part of any players' prime. You could debate whether it has "peak" capabilities on a player that shone even brighter, fine...but that season added to a HOF resume, so I classify it as "impact"...

To bring it closer to home...Jagr's season last year (45-50 points, whatever it was) is not an impact season...it added nothing to his resume at all...just to quickly illustrate the point further...

That said, a pretty convincing case could be made that he's not a HOFer just on the amount of time he put in...it's like the old thing with MVP voting, you can't win it if you miss 25% of the season (Jagr 2000, Brady 2016, etc.) - can you be in the HOF with four seasons? Five? Three? If they're all impact...? Que se yo?

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Postby slappybrown » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:20 pm

Yea I dont define impact to mean "something positive added to a resume" in the context of a HOF discussion, but as you say, this is a nebulous term in this context and we're arguing shades -- I called that season good, you called it impact.

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Postby willeyeam » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:41 pm

Specialists getting in, imo, is like putting the best pinch hitter or left handed specialist into the MLB HOF, imo. That said, specialists are already in and I concede Hester should be in on those grounds. My personal semi-irrational stance is none of them should be in. Shrug

I forgot TD got in. Probably shouldn't have

count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:44 pm

One issue with comparing this to other sports is that in other sports there's offense and there's defense. There's no in between like there is with special teams and football.

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