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willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:44 pm

I disagree. Better QBs play at better programs for the most part. Best non-major program QBs - Ben and Wentz? Compared to say, Mahomes, Lamar, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson
Probably for a short while you could've added Delaware's finest and elite football dragon Joe Flacco to the best non-major program QBs list.
No

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:55 pm

If the Browns skip him at 1 and he's their guy (which you can't put a price on...this isn't an auction, it's a draft...what you get is a lot more important than some perceived "value" that you think you can achieve in a transactional sense versus some parroted consensus that has its majority made up of people who have no professional knowledge of the process).

If they go Barkley at 1, they run the risk of being selected by any other team in the league at 2 or 3. They weren't willing to take that risk. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent...but just assuming that they would get him at 4 also suggests that we know what every NFL team's draft board looked like...
They didn't need to know every team's board. They needed to have a sense of what NYG and NYJ were doing, and both those teams were pretty clear about what they wanted ahead of the draft. Shoot, the Jets even traded up a month before the draft to get into the 3-spot because they were targeting a QB. And it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to intuit that no one else was as big on Baker as CLE was. The Giants were pretty clear by draft day they wanted Barkley if CLE didn't select him 1st overall, the Jets were clear they wanted Darnold if he was available (and as I recall Allen was their fallback). The risk of any of the other 29 teams making a trade to move into the 2 or 3 position in the 20 minutes that would elapse between the 1st and 3rd is exceedingly minimal imo.

It turned out, no other team even had Baker in their top 3 at the position, let alone overall, although that's much more of a 20/20 hindsight thing.
Yes they did because trading was set to [ON], so everyone is in play. Groundwork can be laid for trades for a while with contingencies and the like.

How do we know that last line?
Re the first point, once draft day arrived and the order was set, the odds of a trade into the 2nd or 3rd pick would've been minute imo. And again, we're getting back to the point of that happening to swipe Baker Mayfield off the table. Never in the cards.

To the second point, I remember one of the sourced guys on NFL Network talking about it the week after the draft.

This was published halfway through the 2017 season:
NFL Scout Poll: Ranking the Quarterbacks of the 2018 Draft
That’s why I figured, here at the midway point of college football’s regular season, the time was right to poll experienced NFL evaluators (I got eight of them on the panel) who’ve watched these quarterbacks on where they stand now. The concept here is easy: Rank them 1-5, with five points for first place, four for second, and so on. These are the results from Monday’s polling:
1. Sam Darnold, USC (35 points, 4 first-place votes, appeared on all 8 ballots): Darnold’s been uneven this year, without question, having already matched his interception total from last year. But the feeling I’ve gotten is that scouts will cut him some slack because of the offensive line issues the Trojans are having. The biggest criticism is that he’s trying to do too much, not unlike what Jameis Winston his final year at Florida State.

​2. Josh Rosen, UCLA (34 points, 3 first-place votes, 8 ballots): The Bruins are 3-3, but it’s hard to pin that on Rosen. He’s played from behind a bunch and still has the best completion percentage of his career (64.2) while throwing for 2,354 yards and 17 touchdowns through six games. That said, he’s been a little sloppy with the ball at times.

3. Josh Allen, Wyoming (23 points, 1 first-place vote, 8 ballots): Allen’s numbers are mediocre and his team is 4-2. But there’s youth all around him and scouts trust the talent. One voter put him first, and another put him in front of Rosen.

4. Luke Falk, Washington State (10 points, 6 ballots): Falk was really rolling before Friday night’s five-interception meltdown at Cal, resulting in the Cougars’ first loss. He came into that one with a 19-to-2 TD/INT ratio, and is still over 70% passing.

5. Mason Rudolph, Oklahoma State (7 points, 3 ballots): There’s more variance on him than any of the other quarterbacks. Is it Mike Gundy’s system and his receivers? Rudolph was second on one ballot, and didn’t appear on five others.

​6. Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma (6 points, 4 ballots): If Mayfield were just a little bit taller, he’d probably be two spots higher on this list.

7. Lamar Jackson, Louisville (5 points, 2 ballots): The Heisman winner is as electric a runner as we’ve seen at the position since Mike Vick, and has flashed a strong arm. But inconsistency as a passer remains.

​8. Ryan Finley, N.C. State (1 point, 1 ballot): The junior has a shot to be this year’s Mitchell Trubisky. Two of our eight voters conceded they needed to do more research on him.
No one was high on Mayfield the way the Browns were.

mikey
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Postby mikey » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:07 pm

Of those eight people, half of them had him as a top-five QB. If extrapolated, that's 16 teams that have him as a top-five QB in the class...he got as high as a 3rd place vote on this very list. It just takes one team to like him (like Cleveland) and that's that...

I'm not saying it's super likely or anything, but fans tend to take the whole draft process for granted, especially when it comes to the term "value"...

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:13 pm

Right, 3rd place on that list of just quarterbacks, never mind all the other position players. No one was moving to take him 2nd or 3rd overall, he 100% would've still been there at 4th.

I mean, holy heck that pre-draft poll had Mason f**king Rudolph ranked a spot higher than Mayfield. lol

blackjack68
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Postby blackjack68 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:14 pm

Anyone watching Bills-Chiefs right now?

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:15 pm

That list is sht. Nothing looked like that pre-draft

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Postby willeyeam » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:19 pm


willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:20 pm


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Postby willeyeam » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:20 pm

The first two mock drafts I found had Baker going #3

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:24 pm

That list I posted was the result of a survey of NFL scouts that are actually making the picks, not mock drafts from journalists who are predicting for all 32 teams.

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:25 pm

In October 2017 before the draft 6 months later

blackjack68
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Postby blackjack68 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:08 pm

Much like yesterday’s Steelers game, I don’t know how the Chiefs are only a 3.5 point favorite in this game.

We’ll see.

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Postby blackjack68 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:38 pm

Uh-oh

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Postby blackjack68 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:56 pm

Game

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:35 pm

I hate defending Baker but any scouts who had Luke Falk ahead of Baker should be fired

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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:14 pm

Is this year’s NFC East the worst division ever?

Seriously. All of the teams are terrible. I don’t even think the division winner will get to 7 wins
Last edited by MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blackjack68
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Postby blackjack68 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:19 pm

And yet, one will be in the playoffs.

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:33 pm

Ben Dinucci is a backup QB tonight

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:39 pm

Dalton is terrible

Kaiser
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Postby Kaiser » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:41 pm

Ben Dinucci is a backup QB tonight
That name is unpleasant, get rid of him.

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Postby Shyster » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:09 pm

Listening to the MNF radio call. Kevin Harlan had a good line: "It's 31-3, but the game isn't as close as the score indicates."

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:21 pm

Ben Dinucci is in an NFL game

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:22 pm

One TD away from the most miraculous backdoor over cover ever come on

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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:19 am

The Cowboys...were not good last night. Yikes.

Andy Dalton is who we thought he was, but he wasn't the main reason they got pounded. Zeke with the drops, sad OL play, questionable defense calls, all are before Dalton's play.

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Postby mikey » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:26 am

So, what's that, 6-20-1 all time in primetime games for the red head...?

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