NFL

[mikey]

From morons, yes. They're always rumbling about utter nonsense.

I guess you're actually basing an argument on career passing yards? In that case, most of the best QBs of all time will have played in this generation? That's just DOB/era bias and it's easily brushed aside...

Unless your contention is that Eli Manning is a better quarterback than Joe Montana (6th vs. 18th in passing yards) or that Carson Palmer was better than Steve Young? (12th vs 35th)? Or that 7 of the best 9 QBs of all time have been active in the 2010s? (Manning, Favre, Brees, Brady, other Manning, Big Ben, Rivers)

That is a heinous, heinous butchering of the history of football...

[mikey]

There's absolutely no case that I can imagine for Palmer to be rated better than: P.Manning, Brees, Favre, Montana, Marino, Brady, Young, Rodgers, Staubach, Fouts, Warner, Moon, Stabler, Rivers, Griese, Romo, Kelly, Aikman, Elway, Roethlisberger...that's an easy 20, off the top of my head and that's only guys who have played since the merger...if you expand it to the rest of NFL history and then take closer cases of players being better in this era (Gannon, Ryan, Garcia, Cunningham, McNabb, etc. come to mind), you run out of room fast in a top-50 for Palmer...there's like 28 QBs in the HOF, Palmer doesn't apply and it's not close...

[dodint]

Gannon two days in a row. What a year so far.

[grunthy]

Ummm... Unitas?

[MR25]

hahaha no, not even close. Not close to HOF, not close to 20th best QB ever. Where do people come up with this nonsense...?

Numbers don't lie! I don't actually think he should be but I'm sure there will be some rumblings.

He played for like 15 years. Of course his numbers are going to look "good".

Vinny Testaverde is 7th all time in pass yards. Do you think he should be in the Hall? **** no.

[meow]

Few sports discussions are more tiresome and pointless than the HoF talks.

[blackjack68]

If it weren't for Kimo Von Oelhoffen...

[meow]

...you wouldn't have spent that year in college?

[LITT]

nothing makes me smile more than mikey going on a rant about 'great' qbs

[mikey]

Ummm... Unitas?

"and that's only guys who have played since the merger..."

Unitas spent the vast majority of his career playing before the merger, of course...

[mikey]

hahaha no, not even close. Not close to HOF, not close to 20th best QB ever. Where do people come up with this nonsense...?

Numbers don't lie! I don't actually think he should be but I'm sure there will be some rumblings.

He played for like 15 years. Of course his numbers are going to look "good".

Vinny Testaverde is 7th all time in pass yards. Do you think he should be in the Hall? **** no.

13th* but yeah, Testaverde in the HOF would be like putting in Hasselbeck with one more very good season...

[grunthy]

Ummm... Unitas?

"and that's only guys who have played since the merger..."

Unitas spent the vast majority of his career playing before the merger, of course...

And won a super bowl after they officially merged...

[mikey]

Uh huh...so he's considered a post-merger quarterback? Ok, fine...what a ridiculous thing to double-down on for absolutely no upside...one unbiased observer might call it: EPPic...

[dodint]

I actually thought that was a fantastic quality troll on his part and it got you right in the gut.

[tifosi77]

If you told me in, say, 2005 that Carson Palmer would retire after a full career the same week Marvin Lewis gets a two year extension with the Bengals I would've thought for sure that franchise would have won at least one playoff game somewhere in between.

This would not have been an unreasonable conclusion. But.... well...... Bungles.

[Silentom]

...you wouldn't have spent that year in college?

Nah, that was because of a horse.

[mikey]

Ok friends, enemies and @slappybrown ...I've started compiling information (very raw information, might I add) about QB history and since y'all love my random guessing games so much, I figure I would give yous a Family Feud style shot at this...this is not meant to construe who the best players of all time are, this has no context to it, no adjustment, no nothin'...just raw numbers...

The backdrop: I compiled all passing stats finishes (i.e. Drew Brees finished 1st in yards, Big Ben finished 7th, whatever) for Yards, TDs, Comp%, Int%, QB Rating going back to 1932 (including AFL and AAFC). I took the top 8 finishes from 2016-1995; top 7 finishes from 1994-1976; top 6 from 1975-1970; top 5 from 1969-1960 (top 3 of AFL); top 3 from 1959-1932 (incl. AAFL). [exception: 1934, top 2 finishers, 1932 just one passer met the min. passing requirements]. Ties on formula based things (Comp%, Int%, QB rating) were calculated to break the tie, for yards and TDs if you finished tied for 2nd you received a 2nd place finish and 3rd place would be skipped (i.e. 1, 2, t-2, 4...). Min. 10 games played going back to - IIRC - 1950.

Points assigned per place finished: 1st (15), 2nd (12), 3rd (10), 4th (7), 5th (5), 6th (3), 7th (2), 8th (1).

I'd prefer not to have like 10 guesses per post, but whatever, this is random as it is...so if you followed my nonsense above, have it for guesses...

Top QBs in "finishes points":
1. Sammy Baugh 640
2. Peyton Manning 617
3. Fran Tarkenton 525
5. Johnny Unitas 485
6. Drew Brees 474
7. Len Dawson 444
8. Y.A. Tittle 437
9. Brett Favre 421
10. Joe Montana 411
11. Tom Brady 396
12. Don Marino 395
14. Sonn Jurgensen 371
15. Steve Young 360
18. Norm Van Brocklin 319
21. Aaron Rodgers 272
22. Bart Starr 266
23. Roger Staubach 266
24. Dan Fouts 253
27. Joe Namath 214
29. Warren Moon 204
32. George Blanda 194
34. Bobby Layne 190
45. Jim Kelly 160
48. John Elway 153
49. Ben Roethlisberger 151
68. Bernie Kosar 110
69. Randall Cunningham 109
71. Terry Bradshaw 108
72. Dave Krieg 107
88. Phil Simms 81
102. Ron Jaworski 66

For those that found this even a tiny bit interesting, I've updated the numbers with the 2017 final data:

Yards:
1. Brady
2. Rivers
3. Stafford
4. Brees
5. Roethlisberger
6. Ryan
7. Cousins
8. Smith

TDs:
1. Wilson
2. Wentz
3. Brady
4. Stafford
t-5. Rivers
t-5. Roethlisberger
t-5. Goff
8. Cousins

Comp%
1. Brees
2. Keenum
3. Smith
4. McCown
5. Brady
6. Stafford
7. Rodgers
8. Ryan

Int%
1. Taylor
2. Smith
3. Brady
4. Keenum
5. Goff
6. Brissett
7. Brees
8. Wentz

QB Rating
1. Smith
2. Brees
3. Brady
4. Wentz
5. Goff
6. Stafford
7. Keenum
8. Rodgers

I think I caught all the first-timers to the big, big list: Brissett (3 pts), McCown (7), Keenum (14), Goff (15), Wentz (20).

So Wentz jumps from NR all the way up t-179th with Jay Schroeder passing legends Kelly Holcomb, Jeff Blake, Gus Frerotte (best known for breaking his own neck during a Sunday Night Football tie) and the old ball coach...

Brady adds 50 points as a 50 year old, which is pretty nutso. He finally jumps into the top-10...hopping Montana, Favre, Tittle and Dawson to get to 7th.

Brees added a few less than Brady, but enough to get over 500 - which seems to be mythical status. He hops to #4, surpassing noted post-merger QB Johnny Unitas (:slug:) and Otto Graham to get to 4th. Even a "good/very good" season next year would hop him over Fran Tarkenton...it seems unlikely any youth-filled fountain could propel him into Manning/Baugh territory...

Rivers had a pretty impactful season, he jumps from 37th to 30th. Just a whisker behind another slinger in Warren Moon. He hopped a lot of older guys in the process: Gabriel, Stabler, Blanda, Layne, Conerly, among them...irrespective of my data dump here, we really have to start considering Phillip Rivers for the HOF at some point...he's been a whale of a gunslinger for a while now and he has impact seasons...even if he doesn't have an MVP or a Superb Owl, that shouldn't be a non-starter...especially considering the competition he is facing for QB awards and accolades...

Big Ben dramatically hops 80's-90's faves John Elway and Jim Kelly...next up Troy Aikman.

Carson Palmer...added...nothing...

1. Sammy Baugh 640
2. Peyton Manning 617
3. Fran Tarkenton 525
4. Drew Brees 510
5. Otto Graham 490
6. Johnny Unitas 485
7. Tom Brady 446
8. Len Dawson 444
9. Y.A. Tittle 437
10. Brett Favre 421
11. Joe Montana 411
12. Dan Marino 395
13. Arnie Herber 382
14. Sonny Jurgensen 371
15. Steve Young 360
16. Ken Anderson 322
17. John Brodie 320
18. Norm Van Brocklin 319
19. Sid Luckman 306
20. John Hadl 298
21. Aaron Rodgers 275
22. Bart Starr 266
23. Roger Staubach 266
24. Dan Fouts 253
25. Ed Danowski 252

[columbia]

Uh huh...so he's considered a post-merger quarterback? Ok, fine...what a ridiculous thing to double-down on for absolutely no upside...one unbiased observer might call it: EPPic...

You’re finally catching on.

[Dickie Dunn]

Big ESPN article on the growing discord between Brady, Kraft, and Belichick. Brady is running the show and Kraft agreed to his demand that the team trade Brissett and Jimmy G to ensure he can start in New England for an eternity with no replacement in waiting, to the complete objection to Belichick who thinks the success of the Patriots is more important of any one player and wanted Jimmy G to be his new QB of the future.

[NTP66]

THEY'RE IN OUR THEIR HEADS.

[robbiestoupe]

Looks like Belichek won the fight for the nutritionist guru though.

[tifosi77]

Big ESPN article on the growing discord between Brady, Kraft, and Belichick. Brady is running the show and Kraft agreed to his demand that the team trade Brissett and Jimmy G to ensure he can start in New England for an eternity with no replacement in waiting, to the complete objection to Belichick who thinks the success of the Patriots is more important of any one player and wanted Jimmy G to be his new QB of the future.

When I first heard this story a week or so ago, it seemed way too tinfoil-y for me to believe. But apparently I'm not tinfoil-y enough in my outlook.

[Dickie Dunn]

@AdamSchefter

Raiders are giving new head coach Jon Gruden a 10-year contract, the longest coaching deal in NFL history, sources tell ESPN. The deal is likely to be worth about $100 million.

[tifosi77]

So apparently much of the root of this NE implosion comes from Tombrady's reluctance to be a mentor to Jimmy G. Veteran QBs not mentoring their successors is hardly a new concept in the NFL, but apparently Kraft took Brady's side in this. That's where the executive order to not trade TB12 came from. (This is before the health guru nonsense even enters the discussion.)

So to meet that short-sightedness from ownership and pettiness from the star player head-on, Belechick made one and only one phone call to trade Jimmy G - to the team Tombrady grew up worshiping and wanting to play for. So instead of Tombrady being the next Montana, Jimmy G will get that shot.

That's incredibly..... small? I think small is the word here. That's just not the kind of thing you'd ever expect out of Belechick. If course, it could also be a 3D chess move by BB to motivate his aging star who, against brand, had a poor December.

[willeyeam]

I think he liked Jimmy G and knew it was the best spot for him and dealing with Lynch would be easiest. The next Montana thing is probably pushing it as far as reasons for the trade