Fifth Avenue Forum

Because the QB room is objectively better than it was last week.

Why the hell is everyone so excited that a storied football organization is taking a page out of the pirates playbook?

It's different. They're just tired of this offense sucking. The Steelers just said, "screw it. We're starting over." Now there's a new offensive coordinator, new qb room, new center, and a new starting receiver.

Personally, I think expectations need to be tempered with Wilson. (He's better than KP, but a lot of his stats last year were in garbage time. The guy loves his check downs and tries to escape the pocket only to run right into a pass rusher... much like KP last year). Time will tell if he plays better than the past 3 years, but it's hard to blame fans for liking a different approach because what they were doing wasn't working.

A Pittsburgh sports franchise just signed a malcontent 35 year old to a cheap contract, picked up a failed top prospect from a horrible organization, and are trying to make up for draft mistakes

One would think we are talking about the pirates not the Steelers. Why the hell is everyone so excited that a storied football organization is taking a page out of the pirates playbook?

OK Eeyore.

We'll see what happens.

A Pittsburgh sports franchise just signed a malcontent 35 year old to a cheap contract, picked up a failed top prospect from a horrible organization, and are trying to make up for draft mistakes

One would think we are talking about the pirates not the Steelers. Why the hell is everyone so excited that a storied football organization is taking a page out of the pirates playbook?

Eh
The Pirates would make these moves to cut payroll so Nutting could put a diamond encrusted snow cone machine next to his Japanese smart toilet. Steelers will actually spend the money they save to further improve the team...all while having to manage a salary cap. And when have the Pirates ever tried to make up for their draft mistakes.

Speaking of improving the team. The Pirates historically make these types of moves to look like they're doing something, but often aren't actively trying to upgrade anything. The 35 year old malcontent they just signed brought in a Superb Owl ring with him to help replace a 25 year old malcontent with no resume and a fear of competition. The cheap contract is a result of Denver's mistake and Sean Payton's ego...not necessarily a reflection of the player. The player is receiving $39MM next year. The failed prospect comes in as a backup, not your everyday first baseman...and this failed prospect arguably still has more potential than any of your roster QBs from last year.

It may not work out, but this is not a Pirate playbook move. Do...do the Pirates actually have a playbook? I thought they just used an old etch-a-sketch with a right nob that doesn't turn left that Nutting found at a garage sale.

Lots to unpack there.

For one, labeling Wilson a malcontent is unfair. I think the Seattle stuff would be like if the Steelers dumped roethlisberger in 2013. He came back to have his best years, but he was down and it was looking hopeless for the organization.

The Denver era was just a **** show, and that he was able to come back and have a productive year last year is impressive to me. They were close to playoff spot after a hopeless start.

Would just reiterate that the offense looked capable with Rudolph, Russell is a pro quarterback that will make the plays expected of a pro quarterback. That alone makes things better.

I am with you on the fields stuff though. Players love tomlin and want to come here, I don’t know if how that translates to development, seems more vibes based. In the least, it means that we’re Wilson to get hurt, we have one of the best backups in the league. Who knows, maybe they just want to get them both in here and then decide which one they want to pay in 2025

Outstanding.

I think I saw Wilson play 4-5 games last year and he looked completely inept. Like said above it was all check downs and scrambles for losses. I was stunned to see his td/int. I guess I missed his good plays. I should look up some highlights

You didn't. Wilson was terrible last year (and the year before). Most of his numbers came when Denver was chasing the game. He has the benefit of two 300+ yard games to his resume, which came against Washington and the 50 point loss to Miami, but otherwise had a higher percentage of sub 200 yard games than Pickett, consistently scrambled his way out of clean pockets, relied on check downs, etc. Whatever score on a scale of 1-10 someone wants to give Pickett for last season, Wilson was probably a half point better. Maybe a full point due to being able to actually find receivers in TD scoring situations. If he's not significantly better than he was last season, we're just spinning wheels here.

If we are going to throw out wire quotes, I’ll throw out my own:

the thing about the old days... they the old days

Wilson’s last Super Bowl appearance was nine years ago. That’s ancient history. He’s not a threat anymore. He’s a guy that takes a ton of sacks and is unable or unwillingn to get the ball down field anymore. He’s a marginal improvement over Kenny for sure, but he’s not actually good.

Again, pirates fans use this argument all the time….sign someone that stinks to replace someone truly awful and call it progress.

The Steelers have no plan, no vision. This defense is about to age in dog years before our eyes. Watt getting dangerously lose to the injury prone label, Hayward is as old as Russ Wilson, and minkah is 27 which puts him firmly in middle aged group in the league. These QB moves aren’t some savvy coup. They are desperate

The QB positions is the most important position on the team and this was a playoff team last year with a bad QB situation.

The current QB situation is objectively better than last year and has a higher ceiling than last year.

Just take the W and get excited.

Yeah, for as much as everyone ***** about last season, just STFU. This team is objectively better now than they were a month ago.

So DD and theRoo both agree that they improved the most important position on the field, but potentially only slightly. Fair.

What could they have done to improve significantly? What plan or vision are they missing out on? Who is the plug and play star QB1 that they missed out on when they were available? I mean, every team's 'vision' is to have a stud franchise QB, so why do so few teams have one? Do all of those teams lack a plan, lack a vision? Is tanking the plan or the vision that you'd suggest?

I'd argue that their plan is pretty easy to see. If you can't have a Franchise QB, field a top 5 defense...which they added to significantly this offseason so far. They want to run the ball, and brought in an OC that fits that mold. Last year they drafted key players at positions of need that all contributed greatly (CB, OT, DT). They've been trimming the whine from the team by jettisoning DJ and KP. Hell, throw Chuks in that category too. They still have 2 glaring holes at WR2 and C, but still have cap dollars and draft capital to address those.

And let's say Russell Wilson comes in and is an absolute dumpster fire. Now you have Fields behind him. Not great, but probably still better than what we saw from KP.

So they have a plan. They have a vision. They are executing it as we type. This ain't Madden with trade restrictions turned off. You can't just poof something into existence. Unless, of course, you're willing to tank for a year or two.

The options at QB were basically:

1. Stay the course
2. Pay a dickload for Kirk Cousins
3. Make modest improvements for cheap and use QB money elsewhere on the roster

They made the right choice

And we all know the Steelers won't tank badly enough to get a top five pick.

Thank you, ktk, for taking the contrarian baton on this one because it's the off-season and I'm out of form and tired.

The excitement I have is that unlike Colbert, Khan and this version use FA like it should be used and address areas of weakness.

Colbert wasn’t good enough to do what he did towards the end and it crippled the team.

If Khan and team are interested in failing fast and this is what we get, that’s fine, because we start over again next year if the QBs don’t work out.

The Steelers have no plan, no vision. This defense is about to age in dog years before our eyes. Watt getting dangerously lose to the injury prone label, Hayward is as old as Russ Wilson, and minkah is 27 which puts him firmly in middle aged group in the league. These QB moves aren’t some savvy coup. They are desperate

The vision is simple: 0.5 or better football the next 3-4 years and maybe getting a playoff win or 2. The standard is the standard.

The Steelers have no plan, no vision. This defense is about to age in dog years before our eyes. Watt getting dangerously lose to the injury prone label, Hayward is as old as Russ Wilson, and minkah is 27 which puts him firmly in middle aged group in the league. These QB moves aren’t some savvy coup. They are desperate

The vision is simple: 0.5 or better football the next 3-4 years and maybe getting a playoff win or 2. The standard is the standard.

If that was the vision they would've kept Kenny and signed Tannehill or something like that.
Colbert left 2 years ago. Omar's standard seems to be a bit higher. Not sure how that's being missed...unless y'all just like the sound of your own harumphs.

Yeah I don’t get the whole “this is just kicking the can down the road” way of thinking. The offense sucked the last two years. They’ve replaced the OC, entire QB room, and are in the process of reworking the WRs. They’ll be reworking the line including the center position as well. A team that just wants to go .500 and maybe squeak into the playoffs doesn’t do that.

They actually looked outside the organization to improve a huge need. Time will tell if its successful but at least they’re not going same old Steelers status quo.

Like I said before, I understand some fans being excited. Russ and Fields aren't KP, and the team has done a complete overhaul on offense including a new offensive coordinator.

Just because it's different, doesn't make it better. I love that Canada is gone, and we have a new offensive coordinator. The QBs to me are just a little better - Russ can barely cook a can of soup at this point and Fields is a reckless turnover machine that nobody wanted (neither are signed beyond this year either). If they get the offensive line rebuilt and rolling, they can rely on the run game and probably have a mediocre offense. Mediocre is better than bad, but this is a QB league and neither of these guys are bringing you a championship.

The real issue is we don't seem to have a vision at the QB position moving forward. We brought in stop gaps to keep the team above 0.5 for a year, but this team still has a lot of holes to plug in this upcoming draft. I'd much rather have a season below 0.5, so we could actually address the most important position in the NFL. Having a bad season isn't the end of the world when you aren't winning a championship anytime soon. It's much easier to trade up from pick 12 than pick 22 to grab a potential game changer at the most important position.

Yeah I don’t get the whole “this is just kicking the can down the road” way of thinking. The offense sucked the last two years. They’ve replaced the OC, entire QB room, and are in the process of reworking the WRs. They’ll be reworking the line including the center position as well. A team that just wants to go .500 and maybe squeak into the playoffs doesn’t do that.

They actually looked outside the organization to improve a huge need. Time will tell if its successful but at least they’re not going same old Steelers status quo.

This is the correct take.

I would say maybe the correct word isn't "exciting" but rather "refreshing"

Don't get me wrong, I think the Steelers are in a much better position than they were at the end of the season (this is based on the assumption they'll add a real NFL WR at some point, plus a high pick on the position). I just think Wilson is the smallest part of that improvement. Maybe he finds the fountain of youth here, but otherwise I think late stage Ben is about the best we can expect from him.

Even if I'm not sold on Fields, I'm excited about that move as I think it actually shows future planning. Dude has tremendous raw tools, is younger than Pickett, and definitely has higher upside. Plan for him to sit a year and coach him up and maybe we have our QB of the future. We're certainly in a better spot than we were a week ago or where we would be after picking 20th again next season.

Now, this idea is contingent on the Steelers doing something they've proved incapable of doing: coaching up a QB. Other than maybe his early years with Whipple decades ago, Ben was always just himself. Everyone they've brought in after him has been a failure. Landry, Dobbs, Rudolph, Pickett. Maybe things will be different with Smith, as that was apparently part of the reason he was hired.

Regardless, the decision to cut bait, admit mistakes and go outside the organization to correct them is an extreme departure from how this organization used to operate and it's a welcome change. That might be the most encouraging thing in all of this.

We're better than we were a couple months ago. That said, there's a reason we got these guys for a bag of balls. Championships aren't generally won shopping at Goodwill, but we'll see what happens. At least we've got a couple of bullets in the chamber now

Got any other corporate cliches you wanna shake out of there?