TLOU Discussion (spoilers ahead)

[eddy]

Ok, I'm behind, haven't started watching, never played the game, but everyone says to watch. Am I going to be lost if I never played the game. I'm sure you answered before, but I'm lazy.

I haven't played the game and I'm happy about that. I get to enjoy the show for what it is, rather than constantly comparing it to the source material. And after the show ends, I'll get to play the game and pretend it's based on the TV show.

You'll be fine. It took a few episodes to get it's identity. I'm a big fan of the show so far. I don't think it's anywhere close to being the best thing on tv or anything like that, but I am looking forward to watching a new episode every week.

[DigitalGypsy66]

The actor who played Sam is actually a pretty good hockey player. (Also, unfortunately, a Crapitals fan)

https://www.nhl.com/news/the-last-of-us ... =306702280

[skullman80]

Another real good episode tonight. Def changed some things from the game especially at the University, but it worked. Lots of great character moments tonight.

[tifosi77]

Going into the show, there were five story beats I was sort of dreading from a dramatization POV, for impending gut punch reasons.

- Sarah
- Henry & Sam
- Mighty thin ice
- All of WINTER
- "Okay"

(No spoilers; if you know, you know)

They're a little bit out-of-kilter from the storyline of the game(s) right now, but as of Ep 6 we've gotten through the first three of these. And they have largely been translated word-for-word, shot-for-shot from the game (the specific line "mighty thin ice" was removed from its particular scene, but everything else about that moment played out pretty much identically). In other words, they have been the most faithful to the source in the moments that are the highest pitched character stakes.

[skullman80]

Another great episode. Figured they were gonna do the "Left Behind" DLC from the game at some point. Thought they handled it well and gave a good backstory for Ellie within the show.

[nocera]

Bit of a bottle episode but the backstory was definitely needed to flesh out her character. I assume we’ll go back to it at some point.

[tifosi77]

To me it's no different than the Joel+Sarah+Tommy stuff from Outbreak Day in Ep1, they just deferred it to Ep 7. It mostly slots into the story just after the 20-year time jump with the kid wandering outside the Boston QZ*. It's basically the Left Behind DLC (and the American Dreams comics) that were released after the initial game came out. So while the DLC does take place in the same spot as the way they've portrayed it in the show (as a flashback during the events in Colorado), as a gamer you didn't actually get this story for like six months after the game came out.





* Part of me wondered if they were going to revisit that kid and show him getting bitten, or however he picked up the cordys. Either way, It is an interesting distinction between FEDRA and the Fireflies - Kid 1 shows up to the Fireflies all infected and s**t, but they they are spared, cordoned off and observed for weeks; or, the FEDRA route where Kid 2 shows up, tests positive but is still pre-symptomatic and is immediately euthanized. They are doing a great job in the show of illustrating the relative lack of value both the young and the old bring to this world.... think about how few children and elderly we see in the QZs (and what tends to happen to them when we do meet them), vs upon reaching Tommy's town we see kids and olds (in wheelchairs!) cavorting about and watching movies.

[DigitalGypsy66]

The podcast mentioned that the mall illumination scene was all VFX. For some reason, I thought that would've been a practical thing (ie flip on a breaker). Also, judging how a couple of local malls look, that all principal filming would've been at a real mall. Nope, they did film in a derelict, soon to be demolished mall, but the only part they used was the escalator. The mall in Calgary was too small and in too bad of shape to use as is.

And don't forget the 80s Cure song "Just Like Heaven" calliope remix was used...meant trouble coming.

[tifosi77]

"Thanks, but your mall is too s**tty for us to use in our horror show set in a post-apocalyptic dystopia."

[tifosi77]

Mrs Tif has the ability to break up her watching of narrative material in a way that I do not. After the scene in the town where David stopped James et al from doing a bad, she said, "Can we pause and clean up?" and at that point, all hope I had of being caught up in this episode was lost forever; I can't see it for the first time again. "Just you hold off on your 'pacing', bub. Imma take a break that amounts to 50% of your story's run time to go pee and put on muh jammies." This week's movie club offering is "Lawrence of Arabia", which runs nearly four hours and has a baked in intermission where there's a clear break in the storytelling, and everything before and after is crafted to accommodate that breath. Last night's ep was 51 minutes.

This is not the first time we have experienced this, and it is, if I'm honest, one reason I don't really like watching movies for the first time at home. It was compounded by the fact that this episode was for me the most intense and nerve-wracking part of the game experience, which I played through in one sitting. (Roughly 3+ hours) So much of the tension was lost to a potty break.

The finale is slotted in at 43 minutes. I hope we can manage.

[DigitalGypsy66]

My wife is the same way. We're eating breakfast, during the week at 5:30 in the morning, and she'll happily watch 5-6 minutes of a 45 minute network drama. Like why? That would drive me nuts. (She has no interest in watching TLOU)

Really a solid episode, and Ellie was at the forefront of her own salvation. I've seen a few comments that there aren't enough action scenes with the infected. Evidently, there's a big battle in the game during David and Ellie's fireside uh chat. I think the tension of this episode was better (and more impactful for the storytelling) than a big gun fight with infected hordes.

[tifosi77]

They (correctly, imo) made the decision to really limit the amount of Infected in this show. It's like the shark in Jaws; it doesn't appear at all until around the 80-minute mark, and ends up with less than 5 total minutes of screen time. But it is set up well enough that the mere hint of its presence is unsettling.

Fun thing about that scene with David in the game; there is a Bloater that appears once you retreat to the saw mill, and you can one-shot-kill the thing if you shoot it in the leg when it jumps down from the top of the elevator shaft. Boom, little tip from Uncle Tif there. You have to have moments like that in the game, because you're on the stick and that gameplay is actually a vehicle for storytelling. Imagine a TV version of the scene where Ellie is reading the girl's diary in Jackson, and after the big emotional fight with Joel where she says he's the only one who hasn't left her, that that moment is interrupted by Tommy running in and saying "We're not alone!" and then having a big fight scene with Raiders. Cos that's what happens in the game. Cos it's a game. That's what has to happen, you do the game part of the game.

The final encounter with Infected from the game, coming up in the finale episode, includes two Bloaters. They've already deleted two of the previous Bloaters from gameplay (Bills' town, and the college campus), and I think they'd be wise to do the same in the finale. Let the KC appearance be it; he had his hero moment and ripped the dude's head apart - just like the 'kill' animation in the game - and we can move on. Depends on how they pull it off of course, but I'd be fine if that one Bloater was it for the show.

[tifosi77]

Also, in the game there's a thing that happens when they arrive at the next location that acts as a sort of pressure relief valve for the playing audience. It is a signature moment and visual from the game, and Ellie then has a line of dialog where she sort of expresses her mission statement and sets up the context for the final stuff. In my opinion it is very much the denouement of the events with David; even though it's Spring, it really acts as the conclusion to Winter. They chose to break those two beats apart from each other, and I'm not sure why.

So far it is the only real quibble I have with the divergence from the source material, and I find myself dwelling on it. They didn't talk about it in the Ep 8 podcast (because the moment didn't happen yet, duh), so I hope they talk about it in the final.

[meecrofilm]

They (correctly, imo) made the decision to really limit the amount of Infected in this show. It's like the shark in Jaws; it doesn't appear at all until around the 80-minute mark, and ends up with less than 5 total minutes of screen time. But it is set up well enough that the mere hint of its presence is unsettling.

Fun thing about that scene with David in the game; there is a Bloater that appears once you retreat to the saw mill, and you can one-shot-kill the thing if you shoot it in the leg when it jumps down from the top of the elevator shaft. Boom, little tip from Uncle Tif there. You have to have moments like that in the game, because you're on the stick and that gameplay is actually a vehicle for storytelling. Imagine a TV version of the scene where Ellie is reading the girl's diary in Jackson, and after the big emotional fight with Joel where she says he's the only one who hasn't left her, that that moment is interrupted by Tommy running in and saying "We're not alone!" and then having a big fight scene with Raiders. Cos that's what happens in the game. Cos it's a game. That's what has to happen, you do the game part of the game.

The final encounter with Infected from the game, coming up in the finale episode, includes two Bloaters. They've already deleted two of the previous Bloaters from gameplay (Bills' town, and the college campus), and I think they'd be wise to do the same in the finale. Let the KC appearance be it; he had his hero moment and ripped the dude's head apart - just like the 'kill' animation in the game - and we can move on. Depends on how they pull it off of course, but I'd be fine if that one Bloater was it for the show.

I had that same discussion with someone else. Games have a lot of task-based action because there's a sense of skill and accomplishment as a player when you successfully complete them. On screen as you note, it's a totally different beast. Action needs to inform character growth and/or advance plot in a meaningful way (or just be visually resplendent like your John Wick / Jackie Chan vehicles). Just having random-**** happen for the sake of it is boring to watch.

[tifosi77]

Yeah the show is considerably less violent than the game, on balance. They talk about it a lot on the podcast; when you portray a 'real' world situation you can't have characters who are effectively superhuman. There have to be tangible consequences; Joel carries what is likely a broken hand through two episodes after one fight. In real life you can't heal a gunshot by crafting a first aid kit with some binding and rubbing alcohol from your inventory, and crouching in a quiet spot for 20 seconds until the screen goes from b&w back to color as your health meter replenishes. Makes for bad lives-action entertainment, but if you didn't have it in a game it would be borderline unplayable.

Worth noting here that the violence Joel unleashes in Ep 8 is the first time we've seen him do so outside of Ellie's POV. In past episodes, if Joel fought someone or killed a bad guy or infected, it was kept off-screen unless Ellie was in a position to observe it. Underscores their separation during these events, and that Ellie was on her own for now.

[tifosi77]

And also, Se1 Ep8 hit 8.1 million viewers, a season high.

[nocera]

Can’t wait for the rush of video game adaptations from other networks now. FreeVee’s Worms Armageddon series is going to be lit.

[skullman80]

The finale was basically the end of the first game. They played it super close to the game and that's fine cause the end of the first game was incredible and made for great tv.

I was very very skeptical of this show when they announced it but they hit it out of the park.

[DigitalGypsy66]

I saw a Tweet that hinted that Mahershala Ali was in the running to be Joel. Inspired casting, but man, that would've made the racists spiral...

I distinctly remember the hospital scene from watching gameplay walkthroughs. And wondering if Joel's decision was the right one...

Really liked Ellie's birth scene, which apparently was from a canceled animated short and later canceled live short.

And now we wait for season 2...

[nocera]

I’m not ready to be done.

[skullman80]

Season 2 is gonna cause a **** storm assuming they stick close the source material like they did for season 1. The game was hugely divisive.

[DigitalGypsy66]

Bella Ramsey said filming won't start until late 2023/early next year. Mazin has to write scripts, lots of new casting, and so on. Ugggh...

[DigitalGypsy66]

[AuthorTony]

I've been reading about the controversy over Joel's decision. To me, it was a simple choice for several reasons. First, and most importantly, it was all theoretical. There's no proof it would have worked. Second, if the Fireflies were so convinced it would work, then why didn't they take some adult pregnant woman, convince her to sacrifice her life for science, let her get bit, then harvest the baby? Why wait for many months on the slim hope Joel can escort Ellie safely across a wildly dangerous country? Seems ridiculous to have no back up plan in place.

Re: not filming for almost a year because there are no scripts, that excuse really annoys me. Stranger Things pulls the same stunt. I'm not saying scriptwriting is easy, but especially for existing IP like The Last of Us, there's no reason a rough draft for a 45-60 minute show can't be knocked out in a week tops. I can't understand waiting until an entire season of a hit show that is virtually guaranteed for renewal has aired, then going, "Oh man, it's going to be 18-24 months before we can show you anything new because we haven't even started on the screenplays." GTFO of here with that.

[tifosi77]

All in all I give the show overall a solid 9 of 10. I was relived when I heard it was going to HBO as opposed to feature development, and that faith was rewarded. I said to Mrs Tif, "Thank you for watching this with me. These characters and this story have been very dear to me for a long time, and I'm glad I finally got to share them with you without having to teach you how a Dual Shock controller works." And she smiled and squeezed my head and said "Oh, that would never happen. So...."

I have softened my stance on the giraffe as the coda to Ep 8.

Every time they've deviated from the game, they did so in a way that improved the story. And this final episode was perhaps the most faithful to the game, on balance. But the change they did make resulted in perhaps my single biggest criticism of the show: Joel and Ellie do not encounter any Infected in SLC. It's the last major action set piece of the game before the hospital, but the story point of it is to underscore that the world is still overrun by these things, and that the Cordys continue to find new people to infect. A cure is still needed, because everywhere you go there are Infected. So humanity needs the means to end the spread of CBI. The feeling you get from the show is "Well, just avoid Pittsburgh [or whatever city] and you'll be fine. You just have to deal with the banditos, for which there is no medical solution." Even a very cursory encounter placed between "It can't be for nothing" and the capture by the Fireflies........ something to show the stakes that Ellie is committing to (knowingly or not), because the way they showed it it's like her biggest sacrifice will be losing her pun book. I was totally fine with the general absence of Infected in the show, up to this point. But they needed that obstacle at the final hurdle imo, because it not only informs Ellie's commitment to the bit but it helps to further gray-up Joel's choices.