Browns at Steelers - Week 18

[dodint]

If the consensus was that he is a mediocre to above-average coach, as I characterize him, then I could be happier with a .500 season and no playoff success in over a decade because that would be the standard. But that's not how it is. The media portrays him as this perennial coach of the year candidate when that's simply not the case.
If the team staff aligns with that characterization it means they're not considering any other options for Tomlin and his staff. That's the opportunity cost that concerns me.

I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect playoff competitiveness from God's Gift to Coaching. Otherwise why all the accolades? Oh, right, he climbs mount .500 every year in a division that had the hapless Bengals and Browns for most of his career.

[Troy Loney]

Didn’t watch, but Johnson getting only two catches on 10 targets stood out.

I don’t think he works with Pickett. Just dumping him might improve the offense

I don’t think it has anything to do with Pickett. He’s incredibly soft and is so afraid to take a hit. All his issues stem from that: the drops, the running backwards, the god awful YAC. With his attributes he should be unstoppable out of the slot but he almost never lines up there because he will alligator arm every throw

Yeah, probably more on how Johnson plays and Canada's scheme. Yesterday was just a microcosm for how ill suited Johnson is for a primary role in the offense. I think in a more 2/3 role he can contribute, I don't think the options should be Johnson #1 guy, or Johnson gets cut. his cap # isn't outrageous to keep around, it's just how unproductive it was trying to feed him the ball, had almost double the targets Pickens had and accrued a total of 80 more yards.

Seeing that Johnson was targeted 147 times compared to pickens (84) and Friermuth (98), that has to be a scheme thing. I think just merely not treating Johnson like he's your #1 receiver is going to make the offense more productive. And if Johnson refuses to accept a diminished role in the offense, then you cut him.

[dodint]

Given the tantrums he's had already I'd rather preempt your last line and see if they can get something in return for him. Probably can't get much for a WR1 that can't catch TDs though.

[Morkle]

If the consensus was that he is a mediocre to above-average coach, as I characterize him, then I could be happier with a .500 season and no playoff success in over a decade because that would be the standard. But that's not how it is. The media portrays him as this perennial coach of the year candidate when that's simply not the case.
If the team staff aligns with that characterization it means they're not considering any other options for Tomlin and his staff. That's the opportunity cost that concerns me.

I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect playoff competitiveness from God's Gift to Coaching. Otherwise why all the accolades? Oh, right, he climbs mount .500 every year in a division that had the hapless Bengals and Browns for most of his career.

Personally this is how I feel. The standard is the standard. When does the standard get challenged?

[dodint]

I'm not even banging a drum to have Tomlin gone. My core concern is that he clearly needs help selecting and running his staff and my understanding is that he puts loyalty above performance. I'm not sure that can be changed so in the alternative I'd be excited to see a clean sweep of the staff. He's trending towards a Marvin Lewis kind of tenure at the current rate.

[Morkle]

Yes. More specifically the offensive coordinator position has been a dumpster fire since the Haley era. I don't trust him to hire a competent OC - especially one that can develop Pickett.

Canada would be gone yesterday, simply for the fact that they seemingly forgot how to use play-action as a team as the run game got better and better.

[robbiestoupe]

Honestly, I think Tomlin goes on the hot seat after the next playoff loss if they don't win another one soon.

He did a ton with a little this year, I'll give him that, but I'm more worried about the playoffs, and he doesn't show up well there. Doing just enough to squeak in and get wrecked, or do good and get upset in the first game, is not a positive note.

This may well be what happens. Most of us (and probably Steeler brass) understand that Tomlin's record had a lot to do with Ben. If he can prove that he can rebuild and win without him, that will buy him more slack. But if continues to stall in the playoffs, that won't be enough.

But you have to remember people wanted Cowher out of here back in 2001 after faltering in the regular season. They also said he couldn't win the big game, which was true at the time. In the end he was something like 2-4 in AFCCG, all but one of them home games. The year they won the SB it was on the road.

I think the large difference, when you want to talk about fan expectations. Fans back then had expectations of making and winning the Super Bowl every year.

Now, we're talking about fan's expectations being spoiled when just winning the regular season isn't enough.

I'd much prefer fans come to the realization that either the expectation is Super Bowls, or the expectations is "just happy to be here."

But one side needs to break lol.

We also tend to forget that if it wasn't for Brady/Belichick, we'd probably have nothing to complain about. Maybe 2-3 more SB wins, and we'd be feeling more like the Penguins and playing with house money.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

The standard is superb owls as we know

The problem is that this team hasn't had superb owl talent for quite some time now. That team that lost to the jags was the last true disappointment. not sure if that team was better than the Patriots anyways.

Hcmt isn't done a bad job coaching, but as the 5af crew alluded to earlier, the drafting has been ass. Hcmt is most certainly responsible for some of those bad drafts.

[King Colby]

Given the tantrums he's had already I'd rather preempt your last line and see if they can get something in return for him. Probably can't get much for a WR1 that can't catch TDs though.

They got the 32nd overall pick for a way worse receiver

[robbiestoupe]

I'm not even banging a drum to have Tomlin gone. My core concern is that he clearly needs help selecting and running his staff and my understanding is that he puts loyalty above performance. I'm not sure that can be changed so in the alternative I'd be excited to see a clean sweep of the staff. He's trending towards a Marvin Lewis kind of tenure at the current rate.

This I can agree with. I can accept Tomlin as a good coach, both with how he coaches the game and treats his players. I get the feeling he doesn't really call many shots during the game, leaving it up to his coordinators. Which is probably how he gets the rah rah label affixed to him, rightly so or not.

But if that's truly how he operates, he needs to do better with staffing guys that will win them games. I think more than anything, how he handles his coaching staff this offseason will determine his fate as future head coach of the Steelers. He may choose to keep Canada, but if that backfires and the team regresses/doesn't improve offensively, that should cost him the job.

[Morkle]

The only time I ever truly want to fire Tomlin is heat of the game moments when it comes to management. Not even slowing the game down to look at Najee's first touchdown was a fire him to the moon offense yesterday. Thankfully it didn't hurt them, but he'll challenge brain dead plays immediately, but then not even consider the actual touchdown.

[willeyeam]

Given the tantrums he's had already I'd rather preempt your last line and see if they can get something in return for him. Probably can't get much for a WR1 that can't catch TDs though.

They got the 32nd overall pick for a way worse receiver

Claypool was a lot cheaper though

[Troy Loney]

Was claypools one huge game against the bears or something?

[willeyeam]

The standard is superb owls as we know

The problem is that this team hasn't had superb owl talent for quite some time now. That team that lost to the jags was the last true disappointment. not sure if that team was better than the Patriots anyways.

Hcmt isn't done a bad job coaching, but as the 5af crew alluded to earlier, the drafting has been ass. Hcmt is most certainly responsible for some of those bad drafts.

This is where I'm at. Most coaches wouldn't have dragged this roster to the playoffs the last few years and to 9 wins this year. But, he is also responsible to some degree for the lack of talent, too. Hopefully last year's draft was the start of a good run, because that is looking like a great draft

[King Colby]

The standard doesn't need to be super bowls but it does need to be playoff wins. For me, if the steelers want to be the long-standing AFC powerhouse that they pretend they are, one single AFC championship appearance in 12 years ain't gonna cut it. Simple as that.

[Morkle]

Devin Bush had 10 snaps the past two weeks and ended his Steelers career, imo. Going to get him at #10, is certainly a gigantic blemish.

[King Colby]

The only time I ever truly want to fire Tomlin is heat of the game moments when it comes to management. Not even slowing the game down to look at Najee's first touchdown was a fire him to the moon offense yesterday. Thankfully it didn't hurt them, but he'll challenge brain dead plays immediately, but then not even consider the actual touchdown.

I used to say this, but somehow nearly every single coach sucks total ass at game management. Clock management, challenges, etc. It's wild.

[robbiestoupe]

The only time I ever truly want to fire Tomlin is heat of the game moments when it comes to management. Not even slowing the game down to look at Najee's first touchdown was a fire him to the moon offense yesterday. Thankfully it didn't hurt them, but he'll challenge brain dead plays immediately, but then not even consider the actual touchdown.

I missed that part of the game yesterday, but I think there is a lack of quality coaching when it comes to challenges across the league. Perhaps there's a metric where coaches are rated on challenging/not-challenging, and if so Tomlin is probably near the bottom. Not sure how much that really buys a coach in regards to wins/losses across the year.

His misuse of timeouts is also frustrating. It's been mentioned before, but how hard could it be for a multi-billion dollar owner to hire a full time timeout guy as well as a full time challenge guy? Make both of them the same person if you're cheap, but why not be the best at everything you do? It may really bite them in the ass someday.

[willeyeam]

I think teams do have a review guy. Ours just isn't good

[Morkle]

IIRC they hired a video guy AFTER Tomlin made blunders the last few years, and IIRC Tomlin STILL has ultimate say in when to challenge or not, so the guy is basically useless.

[willeyeam]

well of course the HC has final say

[Morkle]

No, meaning, I don't think Tomlin takes his advice at all, given how bad he is at challenges, otherwise that video guy should be fired immediately.

[willeyeam]

Oh, yeah I understand. Good point lol

[mac5155]

I don't count last year's draft in my statement. I mean with KSP it is likely to end up being better than 1974.

I am not sure how it could end up being better than a draft with 4 hall of famers

I assumed sarcasm and I moved on lol

[mac5155]

It was bad enough that he didnt challenge it, but what made it even worse was hurrying to the line all cocky like it didnt matter one bit.