Pirates Offseason Thread 2022-23

[King Colby]

The catch is that he's gonna be 37. It's gonna be an okay platoon

I didn't realize Santana had the platoon splits that he did. Below replacement level left handed for the past few years

[CBear3]

Oh God. You guys think signing Santana and a couple of of guys improving from last year is worth 18 wins? Ye of eternal faith.

70 wins and a "hey, if these guys catch fire we might have a shot" feeling in June would be sufficient.
As a Royals fan, I just hope the season isn't over by May 15th.

[King Colby]

Well said here.

But looking at the players the Pirates have currently, there are some things to like. Now, not a lot of things to like, but there are players scattered throughout the roster who are very good at major league baseball, and the guys who aren’t are at least interesting rather than 32-year-old journeymen (with a couple exceptions that I’ll get into).

Theyre way more down on Santana than some others, but I'm not sure I agree with much of this. For starters $6.7M doesn't get you much, and secondly it's not like there is anyone in the system that they can be using 1B plate appearances on...

I hate to discourage the Pirates from spending money, but spending money on a one-year contract for Carlos Santana is worse than not spending it at all. We want ownership to invest in the Pirates, not simply spend on the biggest, cheapest name-brand veteran available in an attempt to quell some of the franchise’s most vocal fans. If you want to spend $6.7 million on the team, great! Stick that in an index fund to be used on a player who matters at a time that matters. Santana’s been lousy for three years now and he’ll be 37 in April. He doesn’t help the Pirates win now and signing him only hurts

[King Colby]

Also vogelbach landed them holderman. If they can get a half decent controllable reliever for Santana in July then it'd be an obvious W

[Troy Loney]

I hate to discourage the Pirates from spending money, but spending money on a one-year contract for Carlos Santana is worse than not spending it at all. We want ownership to invest in the Pirates, not simply spend on the biggest, cheapest name-brand veteran available in an attempt to quell some of the franchise’s most vocal fans. If you want to spend $6.7 million on the team, great! Stick that in an index fund to be used on a player who matters at a time that matters. Santana’s been lousy for three years now and he’ll be 37 in April. He doesn’t help the Pirates win now and signing him only hurts

I can tell this guy is not familiar with the pirates.

No such thing as deferred spending, that 6.7mm saved would not go towards future payroll.

He doesn’t help the Pirates win now and signing him only hurts them in winning later; plate appearances are a resource just like money, and playing Santana instead of someone else who could possibly have a future with the team is wasteful.

He's taking at bats away from roster runoff like Josh VanMeter, not a someone with a future. They don't have any prospects ready to step in at 1B in the majors. So whatever production he provides with some HRs and walks is straight improvement over what they got from 1B last year

[King Colby]

Lol he also talked like 2 paragraphs earlier about how they didn't spend all the money they saved over the years when they got good. But then advocates saving money again to spend if/when theyre good. We all know that ain't gonna happen pal.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

$6.7 million is such a piss ass, insignificant number when it comes to baseball payroll anyway. What are they gonna do, stash that away and add an extra $1 mill/year to a 6 year, $150 million contract for a good but not elite pitcher?

[Morkle]

Lol he also talked like 2 paragraphs earlier about how they didn't spend all the money they saved over the years when they got good. But then advocates saving money again to spend if/when theyre good. We all know that ain't gonna happen pal.

Who is this guy? Does he even follow the Pirates, like, at all?

[Troy Loney]

Lol he also talked like 2 paragraphs earlier about how they didn't spend all the money they saved over the years when they got good. But then advocates saving money again to spend if/when theyre good. We all know that ain't gonna happen pal.

Who is this guy? Does he even follow the Pirates, like, at all?

Fangraphs staff writer. So, not really.

[LeopardLetang]

Well said where Colby?

I'm not big on the santana signing. 6.7 is a huge number in pirates land. My first reaction was disappointment that that's what they got. But my number 1 priority was to pay for a 1Bman. And combo that with 4mil for the other guy and im grudgingly satisfied although platoons rarely seem to work like just adding up their good sides and that's what you got

But the black hole at 1B and DH was the biggest problem. And getting someone that can actually play first base to support cruz was important. In non pirates land but in a normal small market world they could have front loaded a big contract for a very good 1b (if any exist or are available)

Now I'd want 2 SP. Gibson seems like a decent target for reality. Would raise the floor a bit. Pirates "replacements" rarely meet the 0 wins threshold. Then we'd all enjoy a catcher and bullpen help and a starting outfielder if they expected to be over .500. Right now their ceiling is under .500 still considering they can't afford an injury in most places without collapse

[Troy Loney]

Well said where Colby?

I'm not big on the santana signing. 6.7 is a huge number in pirates land. My first reaction was disappointment that that's what they got. But my number 1 priority was to pay for a 1Bman. And combo that with 4mil for the other guy and im grudgingly satisfied although platoons rarely seem to work like just adding up their good sides and that's what you got

But the black hole at 1B and DH was the biggest problem. And getting someone that can actually play first base to support cruz was important. In non pirates land but in a normal small market world they could have front loaded a big contract for a very good 1b (if any exist or are available)

Now I'd want 2 SP. Gibson seems like a decent target for reality. Would raise the floor a bit. Pirates "replacements" rarely meet the 0 wins threshold. Then we'd all enjoy a catcher and bullpen help and a starting outfielder if they expected to be over .500. Right now their ceiling is under .500 still considering they can't afford an injury in most places without collapse

Bell, Abreu and Rizzo were the biggest FA 1B guys on the market. Bell would require a lot of years, and I don't think overpaying for the latter two make any sense, plus, seems like they both were destined to play for contenders. I think Santana is probably the best option after that group.

They have apparently shown interest in Keuchel and Quintana, so signing a LH starter would appear to be a priority. So that's good. Gibson is a big meh, but would be fine.

[willeyeam]

Gibson is meh but I'd rather watch him than Wilson or Thompson

[Troy Loney]

In a perfect world, wilson and RH Jimmy Anderson are competing for the swing man spot in the bullpen

[King Colby]

Keuchel is ass. He had a WHIP over 2.0 last season

Worth it to get Kelly Nash into town though

[Morkle]

I feel like every year for the past 5 years Keuchel is so close to joining the Pirates.

[Dickie Dunn]

[robbiestoupe]

Notice a trend here? Every pick from the first round keeps moving down the list. Very discouraging.

[Dickie Dunn]

That is very true. Probably a mix of overhyped due to draft position and not developing as hoped, but either way it's not a great trend. At the same time, I don't think Davis necessarily did anything last season to drop down the list. Johnson's got that new car smell and Endy has legitimately developed.

[Troy Loney]

Notice a trend here? Every pick from the first round keeps moving down the list. Very discouraging.

Have to look at these as tiers as opposed to individual ranks. Davis, Priester and Gonzalez all had stagnant 2022 seasons (dealing with injuries and such). It also encouraging that Ortiz and Endy have broken out as top tier organizational prospects. The more guys in that bucket the better.

There is no universe where Harrington is a better prospect than Lopez or Solometo right now. So whoever did this ranking has no business ranking Pirate prospects. Unless he actually is a Pirates' writer, than he belongs on the subject list for a neurolink brain chip instead of writing about baseball.

[Troy Loney]

That is very true. Probably a mix of overhyped due to draft position and not developing as hoped, but either way it's not a great trend. At the same time, I don't think Davis necessarily did anything last season to drop down the list. Johnson's got that new car smell and Endy has legitimately developed.

Davis also got beaned like 30 times last year, that he's still willing to go stand in the batter's box is enough of a win to call 2022 a success for him. There's definitely a group there in that top 10 that really has to show it this year. Another year of just hanging around moves them into the Swaggerty category (no ceiling, just clinging to the hope of cashing a MLB check for a chunk of time). Sadly for me, that group is Gonzales, Priester & Peguero. All these guys have pedigree and have shown enough to ensure that will at least get a promotion to the major leagues, but they all look like guys that will be struggling to do anything with those call-ups, absent another developmental step forward.

[willeyeam]

2 of the top 3 are first rounders and Endy making milb his dodint last year isn't an indictment on anyone

[Dickie Dunn]

Swaggerty category. Tell me you have no MLB future without telling me you have no MLB future. Gonzales is putting up some good numbers in the AFL so that's something I guess. I'm not sold on Peguero. I know everyone raves about Priester's stuff, but being a five inning guy doesn't impress me and his AFL numbers are butt.

[King Colby]

Priester dominated last year

[King Colby]

I mean he had a 2.87 ERA with a strikeout per inning and a decent walk rate across 15 AA starts what more do you people want lol

[LeopardLetang]

Yeah I was more encouraged by that list than discouraged. Maybe since I've already come to terms with the luke warm performances by peguero and gonzales. They still have a high ceiling but I'm less confident in them. But if you believe these lists (which are always heavily skewed to fresh blood) then you have to be pretty excited. Freaking endy was insane last year in a way that threatens to negate the "pirates can't develop a prospect" narrative. Although the biggest narrative is they can't get a prospect to translate their abilities to the majors. Both of those are again threatened by Ortiz. Priester wasn't eye popping but was easily good enough to still be a top prospect so Ortiz jumping him is a positive development not a discouraging one.