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MrKennethTKangaroo
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Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:18 am

Are there any betting lines on who will lead the league in HBP?

If so, Altuve has to be a front runner at the moment.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:22 am

Not really the same at all. Steroids resulted in a home run record chase. What’s the upside to this?
Upside for whom?

The Astros? I can't imagine you don't see the upside for them.

For MLB? The upside is that the expose the extent of the wrong doing, because it would be worse for them if additional details continue to trickle out (such as proof of the buzzers).

I don't think there's any doubt that the league has investigated the buzzer thing. But they also "investigated" the Astros for the same cheating scheme, prior to the Fiers thing. The A's accused the Astros of signaling stolen signs from the dugout by clapping. So they got busted with the banging, and they could have then chosen to use more discrete methods (like a hidden buzzer).

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:24 am

Honestly, you have to be a complete dunderhead to look at what the Astros were doing, and say "that's gamesmanship".

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:23 am


Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:49 am

Holy ****, that video is genius. Some of those assignments are so hilarious.

MWB
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Postby MWB » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:58 am

Not really the same at all. Steroids resulted in a home run record chase. What’s the upside to this?
Upside for whom?

The Astros? I can't imagine you don't see the upside for them.

For MLB? The upside is that the expose the extent of the wrong doing, because it would be worse for them if additional details continue to trickle out (such as proof of the buzzers).

I don't think there's any doubt that the league has investigated the buzzer thing. But they also "investigated" the Astros for the same cheating scheme, prior to the Fiers thing. The A's accused the Astros of signaling stolen signs from the dugout by clapping. So they got busted with the banging, and they could have then chosen to use more discrete methods (like a hidden buzzer).
My question was, what’s the upside to a cheating scandal. PB compared it to the steroid stuff, where the upside was more home runs bringing more eyeballs, so it made some sense for mlb to look the other way. The cheating thing doesn’t really have an upside.

Re, the buzzer stuff. As you said, makes complete sense for them to take the next step to up their cheating game. I do wonder how widespread this will get. Cora insinuated over the summer that Beltran was probably helping the Yankees cheat when he had a presser in London.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:04 am

The twins set a record for home runs in a season. If news came out that they were stealing signs by whatever means, would anyone be surprised?

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:06 am

Nope, especially because it was the Twins...

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:39 am

idk, I find the "holier than thou" stuff from fans to be pretty funny. I'm sure most every team if not every team is trying their hardest to cheat and it is interesting that sign stealing is "ok" until you use electronic devices which arbitrarily becomes not ok

I feel like many fans are getting overdramatic with this. Or maybe I'm just numb after all the steroids stuff

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:41 am

No

mikey
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Postby mikey » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:43 am

I don't know baseball...but this thread reads like: guy on 2nd stealing/reading signs vs electronic recording of signs and then a means of communicating them to players playing...if you find those things to be equivalent, I got a curb for you to bite...

Well, that's too far. But you're wrong none the less...

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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:48 am

I don't know baseball...but this thread reads like: guy on 2nd stealing/reading signs vs electronic recording of signs and then a means of communicating them to players playing...if you find those things to be equivalent, I got a curb for you to bite...

Well, that's too far. But you're wrong none the less...
I never said they were equivalent. Obviously the means by which they're obtained are different

but at what point is the line drawn where the former is ok but the latter is not ok? '

also, the common thought is that the teams only benefitted while playing at home right? because Altuve, just to grab a name, hit much better on the road than at home in 2017 throughout the season. I'm not saying it didn't benefit him, I just think this lynchmob is a bit much for the crime

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/Fuobg

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:58 am

I don't know baseball...but this thread reads like: guy on 2nd stealing/reading signs vs electronic recording of signs and then a means of communicating them to players playing...if you find those things to be equivalent, I got a curb for you to bite...

Well, that's too far. But you're wrong none the less...
Yeah, the difference is night and day. When there is a runner on second, you'll see mound visits where the pitcher and catcher convene to confirm the new signs. I've seen dopes talk about how teams should be able to adjust their signals throughout the game to account for video sign stealing. That's so stupid. You would have to have rolling signals that basically change pitch to pitch. How are you going to ask your pitcher and catcher to remember that?

MWB
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Postby MWB » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:01 am

It’s kind of a, “you know it when you see it” type situation. For me, if it goes beyond what you can get on the field of play, that’s too far. A guy on second getting signs, part of the game. And can also be dealt with on the field. Roger Clemens got pissed at someone on second because he thought he was stealing signs. Yelled at him, then drilled him next time up. But when teams start using binoculars or cameras, that’s too far, imo. Also can’t really be legislated in game.

Orlando Penguin
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Postby Orlando Penguin » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:08 pm

I don't know baseball...but this thread reads like: guy on 2nd stealing/reading signs vs electronic recording of signs and then a means of communicating them to players playing...if you find those things to be equivalent, I got a curb for you to bite...

Well, that's too far. But you're wrong none the less...
Yeah, the difference is night and day. When there is a runner on second, you'll see mound visits where the pitcher and catcher convene to confirm the new signs. I've seen dopes talk about how teams should be able to adjust their signals throughout the game to account for video sign stealing. That's so stupid. You would have to have rolling signals that basically change pitch to pitch. How are you going to ask your pitcher and catcher to remember that?

The link below explains how the Nationals did it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspo ... -says/amp/

Orlando Penguin
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Postby Orlando Penguin » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:09 pm

The twins set a record for home runs in a season. If news came out that they were stealing signs by whatever means, would anyone be surprised?
Hey, leave my team alone. Let us take our annual playoff sweep in peace.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:18 pm


The link below explains how the Nationals did it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspo ... -says/amp/
And that's not feasible to manage over the course of an entire ML season.

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:33 pm

Altuve definitely heard the question the first time. That is a classic, reliable liar's tell...asking to repeat the question to have time to come up with the response.

dodint
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Postby dodint » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:45 pm

This is starting to sound like Sign Warz.

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:54 pm

Altuve definitely heard the question the first time. That is a classic, reliable liar's tell...asking to repeat the question to have time to come up with the response.
That's what I thought

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:55 pm


The link below explains how the Nationals did it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspo ... -says/amp/
And that's not feasible to manage over the course of an entire ML season.
I don't know about that. But it would be a pain in the ass and extend games which is the last thing anyone would ask for out of this

MWB
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Postby MWB » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:08 pm

I don't know baseball...but this thread reads like: guy on 2nd stealing/reading signs vs electronic recording of signs and then a means of communicating them to players playing...if you find those things to be equivalent, I got a curb for you to bite...

Well, that's too far. But you're wrong none the less...
I never said they were equivalent. Obviously the means by which they're obtained are different

but at what point is the line drawn where the former is ok but the latter is not ok? '

also, the common thought is that the teams only benefitted while playing at home right? because Altuve, just to grab a name, hit much better on the road than at home in 2017 throughout the season. I'm not saying it didn't benefit him, I just think this lynchmob is a bit much for the crime

http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/Fuobg
Just to add another thing to the difference between old sign stealing and technology sign stealing, this article has some of the Jomboy twitter videos that show how quickly the info is relayed:
https://es.pn/2FM8WVb

faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:41 pm

If there's nothing wrong with it then what's the need to crack down on anything?
Outside of the rules in place I think it’s a non-story. However when looking at what the Patriots have and continue to do in the NFL i can see the reasoning behind thinking sign stealing is beyond the pale.
Worst take ever. Must be a millennial thing.

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:08 pm

If there's nothing wrong with it then what's the need to crack down on anything?
Outside of the rules in place I think it’s a non-story. However when looking at what the Patriots have and continue to do in the NFL i can see the reasoning behind thinking sign stealing is beyond the pale.
Worst take ever. Must be a millennial thing.
Had no idea people were this passionate about baseball. Clearly a boomer thing I guess.

Beveridge
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Postby Beveridge » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:12 pm

I had the problem solved. Not sure why we're still talking about it.

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