That was sarcasm.?
MLB
-
- Posts: 35317
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
- Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry
MLB
-
- Posts: 27663
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm
MLB
Seemed like a sarcastic emphasis of the point you were making.
-
- Posts: 27663
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm
MLB
Right, he was sarcastically stating the straw man argument.I wasn't implying that the owners could afford that or do that
-
- Posts: 35317
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
- Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry
MLB
It was sarcastic, and basically the morons at the Flagship were making that argument.
-
- Posts: 42719
- Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:58 pm
- Location: More of a before-rehab friend...
- Contact:
MLB
Does the aspect of injury from running bases compare to the aspect of injury from (basically) only pitching all the time? That seems like a ton of wear on your shoulder/rotator cuff/elbow/wrist...Hitting is incredibly difficult. As is pitching. To dedicate the amount of time to become a decent hitter would take away your time from pitching, so for most players, it’s not worth it for the 80-100 at-bats a year. There’s also the aspect of injury a pitcher could face when batting/running bases.Non-baseball guy here, but also bored...has there been no investment (re-investment?) in pitcher hitting development? Like, no one (relatively speaking) has determined that to be a useful skill, particularly for a starting pitcher? Wouldn't a starter see like 7-12 ABs per month or so? That's not worth trying to get on base twice in that span or so...? I know that puckhandling is out as a skill in hockey for the most part (trapezoid, different post integrations, the odd desire to direct pucks out of play for unnecessary in-zone draws, etc.) but still a healthy amount of players come along and still do it well: Smith, Bishop, Jarry, etc. seems like a higher percentage than pitchers that can hit...
Is the sport (like most sports) become too specialized for this skill to be brought back...? I may be wrong, but I thought I remember Tom Glavine being able to hit and that was just in the 90s...(which I guess was a while ago now)...was the DH brought in because pitchers couldn't hit? Or was the DH brought in so pitchers wouldn't hit...?
I don't know, I'm a guy that thinks sport has become too specialized and would rather prompt more complete development and skill utilization than just go, "man, certain people are bad at that...let's make them not to do it..."
Again, saying this as someone who doesn't know baseball...just thinking aloud...
MLB
I thought there was an agreement to prorate salary based on games played? And the issue was with no fans being in attendance?Well yeah, less fans, less TV money, less money to pay players.. But I think the simplest way to put it because all of those could possibly be "not my problem" - is you're giving us half the labor as usual, you get less money.I think they want a pay cut because fans won't be in attendance.So I understand having a contract. But if you play half the amount of games I feel like there should be some pay cut as well right?
MLB
A pitcher is certainly much more likely to face an injury caused by pitching; the hitting/running part just adds to the possibility of an injury happening. Think of it this way: you just paid a pitcher $200 million to get wins and strikeouts and be the best pitcher possible. You’re not paying him for any other reason (unless his name is Ohtani). Would you really want him to get hurt tripping over second base?Does the aspect of injury from running bases compare to the aspect of injury from (basically) only pitching all the time? That seems like a ton of wear on your shoulder/rotator cuff/elbow/wrist...Hitting is incredibly difficult. As is pitching. To dedicate the amount of time to become a decent hitter would take away your time from pitching, so for most players, it’s not worth it for the 80-100 at-bats a year. There’s also the aspect of injury a pitcher could face when batting/running bases.Non-baseball guy here, but also bored...has there been no investment (re-investment?) in pitcher hitting development? Like, no one (relatively speaking) has determined that to be a useful skill, particularly for a starting pitcher? Wouldn't a starter see like 7-12 ABs per month or so? That's not worth trying to get on base twice in that span or so...? I know that puckhandling is out as a skill in hockey for the most part (trapezoid, different post integrations, the odd desire to direct pucks out of play for unnecessary in-zone draws, etc.) but still a healthy amount of players come along and still do it well: Smith, Bishop, Jarry, etc. seems like a higher percentage than pitchers that can hit...
Is the sport (like most sports) become too specialized for this skill to be brought back...? I may be wrong, but I thought I remember Tom Glavine being able to hit and that was just in the 90s...(which I guess was a while ago now)...was the DH brought in because pitchers couldn't hit? Or was the DH brought in so pitchers wouldn't hit...?
I don't know, I'm a guy that thinks sport has become too specialized and would rather prompt more complete development and skill utilization than just go, "man, certain people are bad at that...let's make them not to do it..."
Again, saying this as someone who doesn't know baseball...just thinking aloud...
I agree with you on specialization, both in a specific sport and in sports in general, where kids are encouraged to focus on one thing. But baseball is a bit different. Pitching and hitting are completely distinct parts of the game. It’s not like stickhandling in hockey or dribbling in basketball, which are aspects of the completeness of one's overall ability. People aren’t criticizing a batters ability to pitch, or vice versa, because those skill sets are so unique and separate. If it were a matter or “work harder,” more people would have successfully done it at the mlb level.
MLB
I see the DH argument through the lens of pitchers suck hitting and everyone knows it, it's boring, but.. managing the NL game with pinch hitters/double switches and managing a bench makes it more strategical than the AL game where there aren't those decisions to be made.
MLB
I didn't know they had an agreement on that - that's good. I guess I'd be curious what % of revenues attendance comprisedI thought there was an agreement to prorate salary based on games played? And the issue was with no fans being in attendance?Well yeah, less fans, less TV money, less money to pay players.. But I think the simplest way to put it because all of those could possibly be "not my problem" - is you're giving us half the labor as usual, you get less money.I think they want a pay cut because fans won't be in attendance.So I understand having a contract. But if you play half the amount of games I feel like there should be some pay cut as well right?
MLB
Agree completely with this.I see the DH argument through the lens of pitchers suck hitting and everyone knows it, it's boring, but.. managing the NL game with pinch hitters/double switches and managing a bench makes it more strategical than the AL game where there aren't those decisions to be made.
-
- Posts: 35317
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
- Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry
MLB
Agree completely with this.I see the DH argument through the lens of pitchers suck hitting and everyone knows it, it's boring, but.. managing the NL game with pinch hitters/double switches and managing a bench makes it more strategical than the AL game where there aren't those decisions to be made.
MLB
I see the DH argument through the lens of pitchers suck hitting and everyone knows it, it's boring, but.. managing the NL game with pinch hitters/double switches and managing a bench makes it more strategical than the AL game where there aren't those decisions to be made.
MLB
IMO, the strategy part gets outweighed by the part where every ninth hitter just sucks, and in some cases doesn’t even try. Certain aspects of strategy are taken away when you know you’ve got a pitcher coming up, so it simplifies things sometimes.
-
- Posts: 11603
- Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:27 pm
MLB
This is where I am. It's not so much strategy as it is management. No manager has an advantage over another because he's better at pulling the double switch. At least not enough to make a big dent.IMO, the strategy part gets outweighed by the part where every ninth hitter just sucks, and in some cases doesn’t even try. Certain aspects of strategy are taken away when you know you’ve got a pitcher coming up, so it simplifies things sometimes.
Add to the fact that DH should equal less pitching changes as you're not purposefully taking a pitcher out to pinch hit. You could even say that adds to the strategy of the AL where managers have to be smart in putting in a pinch hitter when it makes the most sense. In the NL you're wasting your bench players PH'ing for the pitcher.
-
- Posts: 35317
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
- Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry
MLB
Knowing when to double switch was a big problem Clint Hurdle had and most certainly cost the Pirates' games.
MLB
@ me next time Pittsburgh Dad JrI see the DH argument through the lens of pitchers suck hitting and everyone knows it, it's boring, but.. managing the NL game with pinch hitters/double switches and managing a bench makes it more strategical than the AL game where there aren't those decisions to be made.
-
- Posts: 11603
- Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:27 pm
MLB
Can't argue with that but one also has to question whether CH had any interest in baseball after 2016Knowing when to double switch was a big problem Clint Hurdle had and most certainly cost the Pirates' games.
-
- Posts: 12541
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:50 pm
MLB
One of the small pleasures in baseball is when a starting pitcher is in the game and due up in the next half inning and there is that hope altogether that he keeps it together so the pirates don't have to burn a reliever to get a couple guys out. i dont think suspsenful is the right word, but it is something interesting that happens in the NL and wouldn't happen with the AL
-
- Posts: 35317
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
- Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry
MLB
Yep.One of the small pleasures in baseball is when a starting pitcher is in the game and due up in the next half inning and there is that hope altogether that he keeps it together so the pirates don't have to burn a reliever to get a couple guys out. i dont think suspsenful is the right word, but it is something interesting that happens in the NL and wouldn't happen with the AL
Bench players are basically useless in the AL.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 360 guests