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dodint
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Postby dodint » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:56 am

You're preaching to Pirates fans; they're not going to hear the sermon.

MR25
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Postby MR25 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:31 pm

I hope the Dodgers win and Freese plays a big part so he can throw more shade at the Pirates organization.

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Postby Orlando Penguin » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:38 pm

This Astros-Sox Game 3 is a good example of why you shouldn't marry yourself to analytics. Keuchel was up and down but he had gotten the last 6 in a row and got thru 5 innings. In this age of 'we have to get to the bullpen and the fresh arms asap', Hinch goes to his pen, nevermind that Keuchel was finding a groove and the Astros had just tied the score. Joe Smith comes in and immediately gives up a dinger to make it 3-2. Then, Osuna comes in the 8th, pitching his first game in 10 days (4 games), and puts two guys on base with 2 outs. Hits Holt to load them up, hits Moreland to bring in a run, and then allows a grand slam to Bradley and now the game is over. If Hinch just leaves Keuchel in a little longer with a short leash, maybe he doesn't give up the dinger to Pearce in the 6th that Smith did. You know what you have out there; it's been shown to you for 5 innings. You don't know what's coming out of the pen. If Keuchel had labored to get thru 5 innings, then yes, pull him. But not after retiring the last 6 and at only 80-some pitches.

dodint
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Postby dodint » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:52 pm

I am excited to not have to sweat through Kimbrel tonight.

Dickie Dunn
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Postby Dickie Dunn » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:24 am

Manny Machado appears to be a piece of ****. Brewers should target a fastball at his dome piece.

robbiestoupe
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Postby robbiestoupe » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:28 am

This Astros-Sox Game 3 is a good example of why you shouldn't marry yourself to analytics. Keuchel was up and down but he had gotten the last 6 in a row and got thru 5 innings. In this age of 'we have to get to the bullpen and the fresh arms asap', Hinch goes to his pen, nevermind that Keuchel was finding a groove and the Astros had just tied the score. Joe Smith comes in and immediately gives up a dinger to make it 3-2. Then, Osuna comes in the 8th, pitching his first game in 10 days (4 games), and puts two guys on base with 2 outs. Hits Holt to load them up, hits Moreland to bring in a run, and then allows a grand slam to Bradley and now the game is over. If Hinch just leaves Keuchel in a little longer with a short leash, maybe he doesn't give up the dinger to Pearce in the 6th that Smith did. You know what you have out there; it's been shown to you for 5 innings. You don't know what's coming out of the pen. If Keuchel had labored to get thru 5 innings, then yes, pull him. But not after retiring the last 6 and at only 80-some pitches.
Doug Drabek agrees with you

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:42 am

analytics have their place no doubt.. and I believe they work if you use them right and stick to your guns over 162 games as the averages of not letting a guy get to the 3rd time through the order, or whatever theory they have will end up working out in the long haul. But when it comes to playoffs, 1 game meaning so much, throw that sht out of the window and manage a game. If your pitcher is dealing on that night, ride him.

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Postby Orlando Penguin » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:42 am

This Astros-Sox Game 3 is a good example of why you shouldn't marry yourself to analytics. Keuchel was up and down but he had gotten the last 6 in a row and got thru 5 innings. In this age of 'we have to get to the bullpen and the fresh arms asap', Hinch goes to his pen, nevermind that Keuchel was finding a groove and the Astros had just tied the score. Joe Smith comes in and immediately gives up a dinger to make it 3-2. Then, Osuna comes in the 8th, pitching his first game in 10 days (4 games), and puts two guys on base with 2 outs. Hits Holt to load them up, hits Moreland to bring in a run, and then allows a grand slam to Bradley and now the game is over. If Hinch just leaves Keuchel in a little longer with a short leash, maybe he doesn't give up the dinger to Pearce in the 6th that Smith did. You know what you have out there; it's been shown to you for 5 innings. You don't know what's coming out of the pen. If Keuchel had labored to get thru 5 innings, then yes, pull him. But not after retiring the last 6 and at only 80-some pitches.
Doug Drabek agrees with you
LaRussa was the pioneer of this managing by the book Bs and Leyland took it to the letter. I can’t count the number of times in the early 90s that my dad moaned and groaned about the bullpen moves the Pirates would make.

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Postby Orlando Penguin » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:44 am

Manny Machado appears to be a piece of ****. Brewers should target a fastball at his dome piece.
He is not right in the head. Verducci wrote something about it yesterday.

But...after he got on base in the 13th, he and Aguilar discussed it and appeared to hug it out. So I think that issue is past everyone.

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Postby willeyeam » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:06 pm


MrKennethTKangaroo
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Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:10 pm

Ha

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Postby Orlando Penguin » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:27 am

The old school, anti-analytics part of me likes that the Brewers bullpening strategy imploded on them in Game 5. I mean, you start your best playoff starter, Wade Miley, and then you yank him after he gives up a leadoff walk? You just played 13 innings the night before, how about maybe SAVING the pen for a few innings? Then Woodruff comes in and he's doing pretty well but in a tie game at 1 in the 6th and he's putting guys on base and Counsell is leaving him in? If ever there was a time for Hader to come in the game, now was it. Don't give me this crap that it would be his 3rd straight game pitching. He threw 28 pitches total the last 2 nights. This is the freakin playoffs -- get out there and get me out of this jam. Woodruff stays in, it becomes 2-1 and then the ghost of Joakim Soria walks Kershaw in the 7th, Counsell leaves him in and the floodgates open. For someone who goes to his bullpen quick, Counsell really dragged his feet today. And now they may be done on Friday. Allegedly, Miley may start that one too. He probably should since he only threw 5 pitches today.

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Postby Troy Loney » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:07 am

Any thoughts on the Altuve fan interference call last night?

I think the Astros are major cheaters, so I'm afraid I might be biased, but I think it was fair to call that out, at least one fan definitely made contact with Betts' glove, and the fans are definitely reaching forward, the only question is whether they are reaching over the fence .

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Postby CBear3 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:20 am

...and then the ghost of Joakim Soria walks Kershaw in the 7th, Counsell leaves him in and the floodgates open...
I cannot begin to explain to you how much that man's presence on a MLB roster annoys me. I wouldn't wish him on my enemies (Yankees are a different category).

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:29 am

The old school, anti-analytics part of me likes that the Brewers bullpening strategy imploded on them in Game 5. I mean, you start your best playoff starter, Wade Miley, and then you yank him after he gives up a leadoff walk? You just played 13 innings the night before, how about maybe SAVING the pen for a few innings? Then Woodruff comes in and he's doing pretty well but in a tie game at 1 in the 6th and he's putting guys on base and Counsell is leaving him in? If ever there was a time for Hader to come in the game, now was it. Don't give me this crap that it would be his 3rd straight game pitching. He threw 28 pitches total the last 2 nights. This is the freakin playoffs -- get out there and get me out of this jam. Woodruff stays in, it becomes 2-1 and then the ghost of Joakim Soria walks Kershaw in the 7th, Counsell leaves him in and the floodgates open. For someone who goes to his bullpen quick, Counsell really dragged his feet today. And now they may be done on Friday. Allegedly, Miley may start that one too. He probably should since he only threw 5 pitches today.
They are trying to play to their strength in the series, which is the bullpen. I think the problem is that the Brewers' bullpen cost them game two.

Orlando Penguin
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Postby Orlando Penguin » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:18 pm

Any thoughts on the Altuve fan interference call last night?

I think the Astros are major cheaters, so I'm afraid I might be biased, but I think it was fair to call that out, at least one fan definitely made contact with Betts' glove, and the fans are definitely reaching forward, the only question is whether they are reaching over the fence .
It's an incredibly difficult call because Joe West (not the fleetest of feet) has to sprint to the wall on that play to get a decent angle of where the ball is when it was touched by the fans. He likely saw the fans touch Betts's glove and that's why he ruled interference. When it goes to the video review, there's no conclusive angle to overturn the call on the field (the TBS camera on the wall was blocked out by the fans) so they have to stick with West's call. From the angles I've seen, I think it was the right call because if you extend the wall up, I think Betts's glove makes contact with the wall and thus, the ball is still in the field of play. The amazing part about it is that if the fan doesn't make contact with his glove, Betts makes that catch. And he jumped up far enough from the wall that it looks like he was still in the field of play.

Can't fault the fans here for the natural reaction of wanting to catch the ball. I've sat in the first row in the outfield a couple of times and while I never had a ball come anywhere close, I'd be hard-pressed to think that I wouldn't pull back and let the play happen, despite my umpiring background.

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Postby Troy Loney » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:32 pm

Yeah, it was just a fluky play, bad luck for Altuve. Betts is an athletic guy, he was in position to make that catch. I wouldn't presume that he was going to make that catch, but he ball was clearly within his reach when the fan hit his glove. The call could have gone either way, if you're convinced one way or the other, than you are a fool.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:34 pm

Yup--it's easy to trash the fan in that situation but I can easily see myself reacting similarly.

That is a far cry from someone reaching down over the railing on a fair ball in the corner and grabbing it.

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Postby willeyeam » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:35 pm

I think he probably would have caught it. But I've seen plenty of outfielders in position and have it rattle out when they jump and take an eye off it or hit the wall. There's no way you can say with certainty either way imo

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Postby Troy Loney » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:43 pm

I think the stupidest argument I've seen for the HR, was that his glove was closed. His glove closed when it collided with someone's hand. That was the instinctive reaction to being about to make the catch, he would have presumed the contact was with the ball and thus closed the mitt. So, if anything, pointing to the glove being closed as evidence that there was no interference, is more evidence of interference.

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Postby RonnieFranchise » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:04 pm

Good but tough call imo. Also good call to stick with call on the field.

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Postby Troy Loney » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:11 pm

The only argument I'd be willing to entertain is that the fan interference call was too aggressive to make in that situation. I don't think there's any way that the ump was able to make the call on the field with object certainty. He likely saw Betts' glove make contact with the fan, but there's no way that he knew where exactly the contact occurred.

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Postby RonnieFranchise » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:22 pm

“If Red Sox Win, Joe West is MVP,” wherein Astros fans try to out Red Sox fan Red Sox fans.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2501 ... ir-stories

Please shut up.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:35 pm

its all in the game, yo

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Postby shafnutz05 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:08 pm

TIL Tommy Lasorda celebrated with the Dodgers after they won the division earlier this month. I gotta say, he was not someone I would expect to still be mobile at 91.

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