Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

willeyeam
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby willeyeam » Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:47 pm


faftorial
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby faftorial » Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:52 pm

He seems competent from my viewing but not gg worthy. :shrug:

Ad@m
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Ad@m » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:11 pm


faftorial
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby faftorial » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:17 pm

I think that I would react in the same way.

King Colby
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby King Colby » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:32 pm

My man went right at a way bigger pitcher without hesitation

willeyeam
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby willeyeam » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:35 pm

Hell yeah

willeyeam
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby willeyeam » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:36 pm

Also lol @ the pitcher apparently thinking he wasn't actually gonna do anything because he was not ready to get punched in the face at all

Troy Loney
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:24 am

He seems competent from my viewing but not gg worthy. :shrug:
He lead the league in defensive value at the position according to fangraphs. And there are other objective measurements such as passed balls, errors, SB against, throwing runners out etc. Ultimately it's an irrelevant award, so who cares, whatever impact on his trade value is probably balanced by the additional boost to his arbitration salary that he's going to receive this offseason, so that's a wash.

I'm really only responding to this post because I take issue with the idea that you think your eye test could identify a gold glove catcher. Like, do you think you recognize good catcher defense? I don't, but I can look at fangraphs and see, look, he's really good and not just express skepticism for the purpose of doing so.

faftorial
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby faftorial » Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:26 am

It was an off hand comment. Next time do us both a favor and don't respond.

willeyeam
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby willeyeam » Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:27 am

Good morning

Troy Loney
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:32 am

I believe that the premise of the argument was flawed for the reasons stated. And felt compelled to explain that.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:52 am

Stallings has more career WAR than Pedro, Polanco, Glasnow (!) and Moran.

Troy Loney
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:52 pm



The one FA mlbtr predicted would go to the pirates.

Troy Loney
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:01 am

First big SP off the board. Tigers signing Eduardo Rodriguez for 5 years / ~80mm

Fangraphs' has his 4.74 era being due to bad luck, maybe he's like a left-handed joe musgrove.

Aside from the big names like Kershaw, Syndergard and Verlander who are all likely to get like 1 year ~25+mm deals (less for Syndergaard). There is a bucket of mid range starters that, if the Pirates wanted to try in 2022, is sitting there for a reasonable price.

Unfortunately, the "should they trade Reynolds?" narrative is already building and they could easily just decide to kick the can down the road. My least favorite Pirates' takes guy, Tim Williams already wrote his "paths" article, which is of course, either the Pirates go all-in or trade Reynolds.
Last edited by Troy Loney on Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Morkle
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Morkle » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:05 am

If they trade Reynolds and "kick the can down the road" that pretty quickly keeps things in the always rebuilding conversation to me and this regime is more of the same. Farm system is filled with guys who are great in farm systems, when do we focus on the MLB team?

King Colby
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby King Colby » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:07 am

Unpopular opinion but the Rays would trade reynolds

CBear3
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby CBear3 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:20 am

What a Canaan

Troy Loney
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:22 am

Unpopular opinion but the Rays would trade reynolds
I think circumstances come into play here. Extending Reynolds is still in play, but also, if a team like the Mariners offer two of their top prospects, then you make the trade. But you don't go around like they did with Cole and advertise that you'll take the best offer. I just think the whole idea that they either have to go for it in 2022, or they need to trade Reynolds. I don't understand why there isn't at least the notion that signing players for multiple years is a normal thing to do. Just because you sign one or two starting pitchers means you are "all in" for 2022.

Considering how much FA played into their playoff run (signing Liriano and Martin), you'd think they'd be open to it.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:54 am

Reynolds is a FA after 2025 right? I think most would prefer that the pirates make a good faith effort to sign him to a contract that buys out at least one year of free agency. I think that would keep him here through 2026, right? If that doesn't happen, I'd rather trade him. The team will not be good in 2022 and will probably be respectable but not true contenders in the short term, so you might as well try to get as much value out of Reynolds in the trade market. If they can get two primo prospects that will be able to be meaningful contributors in 2023/2024 AND you can't buy out a free agent year or two, then trade him.

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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:08 am

Which, I think is still solely conditional, based on what teams are willing to put on the table. They need at least one legit prime prospect to trade a 5 WAR guy with 3 years of control. Because also, there is not one reason to do another quantity trade, they are already starting to feel the 40-man roster crunch and they have large international and HS draft classes in the next few years that are going to force them to expose potential prospects. Just tough to find a match, aside from the Mets or Mariners, and I'm thinking the Mets might have learned their lesson after the Cano trade.

Morkle
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Morkle » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:12 am

The thing that bothers me, is they keep trading sure talent for prospects who may or may not pan out in the Pirates system. I guess I'm still very iffy on how this new regime can draft/trade AND develop.

Troy Loney
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:13 am

I find this encouraging


robbiestoupe
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby robbiestoupe » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:31 am

The thing that bothers me, is they keep trading sure talent for prospects who may or may not pan out in the Pirates system. I guess I'm still very iffy on how this new regime can draft/trade AND develop.
This

Troy Loney
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:34 am

The thing that bothers me, is they keep trading sure talent for prospects who may or may not pan out in the Pirates system. I guess I'm still very iffy on how this new regime can draft/trade AND develop.
This
:?:

BC had to turn the Huntington roster over. They would be in a worse place if they were just riding out the final years of the Taillon, Bell, Musgrove and Frazier.

Morkle
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2021-2022 Offseason Discussion

Postby Morkle » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:39 am

The thing that bothers me, is they keep trading sure talent for prospects who may or may not pan out in the Pirates system. I guess I'm still very iffy on how this new regime can draft/trade AND develop.
This
:?:

BC had to turn the Huntington roster over. They would be in a worse place if they were just riding out the final years of the Taillon, Bell, Musgrove and Frazier.
No I think those guys should have been traded, and agree with that. The guys they've received are great, but the Pirates jury is still out on whether they can develop them to be competent MLB players.

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