The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

DigitalGypsy66
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:15 pm

Jesus. Trevor has been like a BP pitcher for the last couple of years. Unreal.

robbiestoupe
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby robbiestoupe » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:42 pm

This is the way

King Colby
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby King Colby » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:40 am

I see they're still pretending, Michael Feliz is a major league pitcher

willeyeam
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:34 am


Troy Loney
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:40 am

Trevor cahill versus wade miley tonight. I’ve always considered those two the same pitcher.

And also, umps need to keep making sure the pirates lose. Can’t waste this opportunity to get the 1st overall pick again.

The bullpen looks solid, or at least competent, luckily, the rotation is lucky to get through 4 innings on a given night, so they could burn out these arms by the end of may

Dickie Dunn
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:08 pm

Cahill fits in nicely.

King Colby
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby King Colby » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:18 pm

Cahill doing his part for 1.1

Troy Loney
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:57 pm

for whatever reason, I decided to deposit some money in a sports book account to bet against the pirates today. I haven't bet on a game since high school

willeyeam
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:02 pm

It's not always this easy

Troy Loney
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:06 pm

I don't understand baseball odds, but the payout is almost .70 to the dollar, which seemed fine. I should have made a higher wager.

faftorial
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby faftorial » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:22 pm

There was no doubt about it.

Freddy Rumsen
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:46 pm

I went to a funeral tonight that had more pep than this game.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:50 pm

Every once in a while on a road trip or whatever, i think about what it must have been like for the pioneers and settlers going west. How did they mentally process the challenge of navigating rivers and mountains and angry natives and disease without losing their sht and just going home?

imo whatever those pioneers were feeling, the pirates bullpen must be looking at the 157 games and feeling the same way

Dickie Dunn
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:33 am



Basically quoting the entire article...
While Leiter and Rocker clearly are outstanding prospects, who's better? We posed that question to a wide swath of general managers, executives, scouting directors and area scouts.

The result was 25-3 in favor of Leiter, with one executive declaring it a dead heat. That landslide overstates the difference between Leiter and Rocker, with most respondents expressing that they consider the two aces to be extremely close in talent.

"It's hard to separate the two," a National League scouting director said. "Rocker is bigger, more physical and has more track record. Leiter just feels like he'll outperform him. I'm more confident with him reaching his ceiling than Rocker. Leiter has more feel and ability to use his weapons."
At the outset of the season, Rocker's perceived advantages were more physicality (6-foot-4, 245 pounds vs. 6-foot-1, 205 pounds), a bigger fastball (sitting at 93-96 mph and peaking at 99) and a more overpowering breaking ball (a mid-80s slider at its best). Leiter got credit for a deeper repertoire (90-95 mph fastball that touches 97, quality curveball and slider, solid if seldom-used changeup), better delivery and superior feel for pitching. Rocker had a higher ceiling while Leiter offered a higher floor.

The son of two-time All-Star and World Series champion Al Leiter has closed the gap in pure stuff this spring -- his plays better. While he can't reach Rocker's maximum fastball velocity, he's now sitting at 92-94 mph and Rocker has operated a tick below that in his last two starts. Leiter generates significantly more swings-and-misses with his heater in the strike zone thanks to its riding life and outstanding metrics, such as induced vertical break, and an American League assistant scouting director called it one of the best fastballs he's come across in any Draft.

"Leiter’s ability to dominate with his fastball is truly elite, especially in the strike zone," a second AL assistant scouting director said. "Rocker dominates with his secondary stuff, especially out of the strike zone."

When it's on, Rocker's slider is a legitimate wipeout offering that he famously used to record each of his 19 strikeouts in a no-hitter against Duke in the 2019 NCAA super regionals. The son of former NFL defensive lineman Tracy Rocker, he also utilizes an upper-80s cutter that can be better than his slider on a given night.

"Kumar's ability to land and draw whiffs with his two plus-plus breaking balls are a separator, and the fastball is playing better than it did in high school," said an AL scouting director who prefers Rocker despite witnessing Leiter's no-hitter against South Carolina in person. "His fastball command isn't at Jack's level, but it's enough, and he's learned to hunt at the top of the zone late for K's. Both are potential frontline arms, but there's more horsepower to the Rocker repertoire and the body is built for the long haul."

That said, some scouts note that Rocker uses his slider and cutter more as chase offerings and wonder how they'll work against big leaguers with more command of the strike zone. While Leiter's 78-82 mph curveball and 81-85 mph slider aren't as powerful as Rocker's breaking pitches, they can be just as effective.

"As special as Rocker's fastball is, Leiter's is even more special," a second AL scouting director said. "Their breaking balls are similar in quality, but I prefer Leiter's ability to command, shape and tunnel his mix and I think his pitches play better in the strike zone. Leiter can cruise along and then also throttle his three main pitches up when he needs extra velo or depth on the breaking balls."
"I prefer Leiter by a pretty good margin," a third AL scouting director said. "He just does what he wants. He can get deep in counts at times so pure command can get him occasionally. But once he locks in, it's four plus pitches, life to the fastball and wipeout stuff. Younger hitters have zero chance."

The biggest question with Leiter is how he'll hold up deep into a season, which he hasn't had a chance to answer yet. While he has gotten stronger in college, he still lacks a big frame and worked just 58 2/3 innings as a New Jersey high school senior in 2019 and 15 2/3 as a Vanderbilt freshman before the coronavirus pandemic ended the 2020 season. Rocker was better than ever at the end of his 87 1/3-inning freshman season in 2019, no-hitting Duke before winning Most Outstanding Player honors at the College World Series.
I think it's an unenviably tough call. Not to be GMNH, but I probably go with Kumar. Leiter's velocity improvement seems to have come from a HIGH EFFORT delivery that is probably not sustainable and seems to guarantee future TJ surgery. His college sample size is also small compared to Rocker. Rocker seems to have some up and down moments in-between complete dominance, but the things highlighted as areas where Leiter is better can be worked on, while Leiter is never going to have the frame for the long haul. Leiter is a bit bigger, but he reminds me too much of Tim Lincecum. Undersized pitcher with high effort delivery generating impressive velocity who was great and dominant until his arm fell apart and then off, sucking after his age 27 season.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:38 am

we are going to **** this up

willeyeam
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:38 am

Ehhh Lincecum was 5'11" 170 lbs. Leiter has 2 inches and 30+ lbs on him. He's actually the same height/weight as Bauer. I suppose I'd use Rocker's frame as a tiebreaker if I had them rated evenly but I think Leiter has taken a step ahead this season

willeyeam
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:39 am

we are going to **** this up
Yes

Beveridge
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby Beveridge » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:39 am

So Pirates are drafting Leiter.

shafnutz05
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby shafnutz05 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:50 am

Newman is down to .222. Best candidate to not reach the Mendoza Line this season? I would think Gonzalez.

Troy Loney
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:52 am

Newman is down to .222. Best candidate to not reach the Mendoza Line this season? I would think Gonzalez.
Polanco, Alford, Fowler.

robbiestoupe
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby robbiestoupe » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:49 pm

I'd lean towards Leiter due to his lineage. Both parents were professional sports ballers, but following in your dad's footsteps gives him the advantage there.

Probably doesn't matter because
Source of the post we are going to **** this up

willeyeam
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:01 pm

Rocker's dad was an NFL player

Troy Loney
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:05 pm

Getting less concerned about the pirates falling short of 1.1.

Dickie Dunn
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:05 pm

Leiter gets the benefit of direct sport to sport comparison, but Kumar's dad is in the College Football Hall of Fame and, along with his brother, had an underwhelming NFL career. It's not the same but it's something.

willeyeam
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The 2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Team Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:48 pm

the Pirates are playing and I don't even care. Usually this takes til July or so. Sad

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