2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

willeyeam
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:16 pm

They should sign every reclamation project they can get their hands on in hopes they can turn them around at the deadline

Dickie Dunn
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:21 pm

I fully expected them to re-sign Williams.

Troy Loney
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:27 pm


MrKennethTKangaroo
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:50 pm

i'll reserve my opinion on priester until I get a firm understanding of his fastball commamd

willeyeam
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:54 pm

Just wait til they get him throwing a 2-seamer

Troy Loney
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:13 pm

Priester was kind of a steal for the Pirates, but turns out to be a wash because of how terrible the Swaggerty pick was from the year before. Just looked at the Priester draft against the top 100 from mlb.com. He's ranked above 10+ guys drafted ahead of him, and no one taken after is before him on the list.

Pretty much emblematic of the last years of the NH regime. For every good thing he managed to accomplish, there were 2+ mishaps that wiped out all the gains.

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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:04 pm

Swaggerty. What a scrub.

Troy Loney
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:08 pm

Swaggerty. What a scrub.
Yeah, going to start feeling the TSwag pick this year. Most of the guys taken immediately after are going to start making an impact at the MLB level soon.

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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:14 am


Troy Loney
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:40 pm



Pirates could end up getting even more pwned on this trade

willeyeam
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:45 pm

Lolz

willeyeam
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:47 pm

really gonna be great when he's on Sunday Night Baseball with a 1.5 ERA and they show the graphic of all the guys we gave to TB for the guy that TB has that's in the Cy Young race

MrKennethTKangaroo
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:20 am

Pirates haven't announced a pitchers and catchers report date yet, but a few teams have announced they will be there around February 17. That is two weeks away.

this pirate "team" is an embarrassment but I am not ashamed to say that it brings a smile to my face to say that pitchers and catchers report in two weeks.

it is a little concerning that I have never heard of 6 of the pitchers on the 40 man, there are another 6 that I am vaguely aware of (like, did I hear about the pirates signing Austin Davis, or was it Carson Fulmer? how could I possibly get those two generic sounding stiffs mixed up?) "Michael perez" is the second catcher on the 40 man. no clue who that is.

willeyeam
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:22 am

Elijah Green appears to be the next Bryce Harper type prospect so I am now all aboard the 2021 tank. Let's reload (?) with Kumar and Green and do this thing

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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:36 am

I see a lot of love for Pirates pitching prospects in my Twitter feed, but man, wouldn't it be cool to have a power hitting prospect at some point in my lifetime again.

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:41 am

https://www.baseball-reference.com/team ... ster.shtml

RichRod and Jacob Stallings will be the oldest guys on the team

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:18 am

Elijah Green appears to be the next Bryce Harper type prospect so I am now all aboard the 2021 tank. Let's reload (?) with Kumar and Green and do this thing
The Pirates cornered the market on tanking in 2021, if the Rangers dumped Gallo, it might have been a contest, but from my quick glance this morning, they have a clear path to the bottom. It will be interesting to see how bold BC is, and that would be whether he deals Hayes and Keller this season or this offseason. They would likely corner the tanking market again through 2023. Personally, I think that would be excessive, especially with Priester charting to be a top pitching prospect in all of baseball within a year, so then you automatically have two of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball after drafting Kumar.

I think Cruz flames out, he was already a wildcard, and now he has dead bodies on his conscience, hard to see him maintaining the mental fortitude to fix the holes in his game enough to compete at the ML level. But either way, there is a pool of other potential breakout position prospects that could become something of a core, and also by 2023 / 24, they could be looking to use pieces from the farm system to complement the roster, they have one of the deepest systems now after all the deals this offseason, and all guys that are years from graduating, you add a couple of drafts and international classes and they will have something akin to what the Padres had to deal from.

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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby dodint » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:03 am

What's the play? Tank for pitchers. Fail to develop them. Trade them for spare parts in 2026 and watch them compete in the WS on their new teams?

Have the Pirates changed anything about their process in developing pitchers? Specifically the deficiencies Cole talked about after he left?

willeyeam
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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby willeyeam » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:21 am

Well they've replaced everyone that effed up then so TBD

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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:25 am

I can't believe i'm saying this in the pirate thread, because dodint never has a good pirate take, but it is a legit point to ask what has changed with pitcher development.

To my knowledge, no one really knows. There was no real minor league season last year, and we have all generally been focused on the major league tanking and less on the actual player development in the minors. I don't think the GM or pitching coach has come out and said 'this is how we are going to make pitching gr8 again"

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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:29 am

The Cole stuff would be mostly whether they started cheating too, so hopefully they'll start using substances like the rest of the league.

The Glasnow debacle is I think in the past, Searage is gone, who I think is 90% responsible for messing that up.

But mostly, if you draft high enough and time it well so that you land a can't miss draft prospect (as in, couldn't mess up his development even if you tried) is the model that they are embarking on. I think the pool of prospects they landed from trades would ideally be the base for which you trade from to complement the top tier players you are getting at the top of the draft. Development shortcomings were highlighted under NH because of their reluctance to make risky ML trades. So basically they held every prospect, and in the case of Meadows and Glasnow, held them to the point where they gutted their value.

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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby robbiestoupe » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:44 pm

Source of the post But mostly, if you draft high enough and time it well so that you land a can't miss draft prospect (as in, couldn't mess up his development even if you tried) is the model that they are embarking on.
If this is their strategy, say hello to another 5-10 years of futility.

Their strategy needs to focus on development as much as drafting and trading. Everybody talks about the Rays' model, Indians, A's, etc. but I look at the Cardinals way of doing things to be the right way. Although that's a pipe dream with BN at the helm, so the best you could ask for is the Rays/Indians/A's. Which will net you 0 WS rings.

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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby King Colby » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:47 pm

What changed? Its all new people with a new philosophy. And they've only been here a year, and a pandemic year at that with no minor league ball played since 2019. So there's no way to answer that question.

You also can't assume its going to be the same because again, its all new people. Nutting is the only constant and he doesn't really meddle in the day to day.

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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby King Colby » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:52 pm

Source of the post But mostly, if you draft high enough and time it well so that you land a can't miss draft prospect (as in, couldn't mess up his development even if you tried) is the model that they are embarking on.
If this is their strategy, say hello to another 5-10 years of futility.

Their strategy needs to focus on development as much as drafting and trading. Everybody talks about the Rays' model, Indians, A's, etc. but I look at the Cardinals way of doing things to be the right way. Although that's a pipe dream with BN at the helm, so the best you could ask for is the Rays/Indians/A's. Which will net you 0 WS rings.
Development is #1. None of their top end talent was developed to reach full potential, as evidenced by post-pirates success.

Rays and Indians were in the world series 2 of the last 5 years. A's are a playoff team more often than not. I dont think you can judge on world series rings... there's more and more randomness and luck around who wins the WS the deeper you get.

The goal should be to make the playoffs with regularity and bounce back quickly after down years. Eventually with enough playoff appearances, things fall into place and you win one.

I realize that's a low bar but it's the nature of the league.

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2020-2021 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby robbiestoupe » Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:09 pm

Source of the post Rays and Indians were in the world series 2 of the last 5 years. A's are a playoff team more often than not. I dont think you can judge on world series rings... there's more and more randomness and luck around who wins the WS the deeper you get.
Sort of disagree with the bolded here. I know it's not popular, but look at who these teams lost to in the WS. Usually big money teams that were stacked.

If you were to look at the other side of the coin, the Royals won their WS against a Mets team that wasn't exactly stacked with a big salaried roster. The Mets also weren't the favorites to make it to the WS, so you could almost say it was a fluke they got there. Remember, the Cards, Pirates and Cubs had the 3 best records in baseball, and it was guaranteed only 1 of those 3 would make it to the league championship series by playing each other in the first 2 rounds. If the Mets had to play all 3 to get there, I doubt they make it.

tl;dr - I don't think it's randomness and luck between the playoff teams who wins the WS each year. Mo money, mo WS

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