2020-2021 Pittsburgh Super Panthers Sports Thread

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Postby NAN » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:08 am

Nice! When was the last time they were ranked?

And 9 ACC teams in there. Wow.

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Postby NAN » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:11 am

Jamie's teams reached the AP top 10 at some point in each of his first 9 seasons. The best of the next 4 topped out at 16, with each of his last 3 teams ending the season unranked... The expectations were higher than just making the tournament
And that's part of the issue with Pitt and their fans. We are not Kentucky, North Carolina, etc. There was a down turn while still in a good era and was still considered successful. But we want more and chase a good thing away because "it's not good enough". And then 99 times out of 100, whether it's Pitt or some other non blue blood out there, they end up worse because of it because there is not a magical coach or whatever out there that isn't already at a blue blood.

If he started to miss the tourney over a period of 3 or 4 years, then you move on. You don't move on because he moved outside of the top 25 or didn't make the final four or elite 8 if he was still making the tourney.

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Postby willeyeam » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:41 am

again, Pitt didn't fire him. He tried to strong-arm them into a raise after his worst stretch as a coach and they declined

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Postby NAN » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:45 am

again, Pitt didn't fire him. He tried to strong-arm them into a raise after his worst stretch as a coach and they declined
It was on both ends. You had donors pushing the admin to move on as well because he was taking them to "the next level".

Same thing happened with Wanny as well.

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Postby willeyeam » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:52 am

So you think Pitt should have given Jamie a raise after that stretch? The choices were raise or let him leave. There is no in-between in that situation

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Postby Dickie Dunn » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:06 am

TCU doubled the salary of Dixon, who was already Pitt’s highest paid employee. In what **** world would anyone agree to double the salary of your highest paid employee as he’s already giving you diminishing returns. Only took the dude three seasons to run the same scam on TCU as he was working his ass off to get the **** out of there and take the UCLA job.

Pitt has been shitty in the post-Dixon era because their dadhole AD did his buddy a solid and hired Kevin Stallings, who immediately ran the ship into the ground. A god awful hire doesn’t mean that refusing to be strong armed into doubling someone’s salary was the wrong call.

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Postby Morkle » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:37 am

again, Pitt didn't fire him. He tried to strong-arm them into a raise after his worst stretch as a coach and they declined
It was on both ends. You had donors pushing the admin to move on as well because he was taking them to "the next level".

Same thing happened with Wanny as well.
My favorite thing about these donors and Pitt alumni is that they think their teams are better than they are/should be revered. In basketball, they'll never be an elite team. In football, well they kicked that out the door when they decline to go after a new stadium, seemingly in favor of a basketball team.

Now they have nothing, really.

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Postby NAN » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:50 am

again, Pitt didn't fire him. He tried to strong-arm them into a raise after his worst stretch as a coach and they declined
It was on both ends. You had donors pushing the admin to move on as well because he was taking them to "the next level".

Same thing happened with Wanny as well.
My favorite thing about these donors and Pitt alumni is that they think their teams are better than they are/should be revered. In basketball, they'll never be an elite team. In football, well they kicked that out the door when they decline to go after a new stadium, seemingly in favor of a basketball team.

Now they have nothing, really.
I don't agree that we "picked" basketball over football with the stadium situation. Pitt doesn't have a lot of athletic revenue (especially at that time) vs their peers and they made a decision to have both of those programs in the best possible spot given their circumstances. It's not like Pitt football would be a powerhouse if they built an on campus stadium. In fact, I think they actually do a decent job at Heinz. The issue is the stadium is far too large for the fanbase. And I don't think we have "nothing".

But that said, I'm in agreeance with you in that the fanbase/donors, or at least a large part, think we should be Alabama in football or Duke in basketball while providing support that would barely keep Duquense afloat. College athletics is totally different than professional sports where donor support and alumni support is paramount. And that is through both good times and bad. Schools like Tennessee, Nebraska, Michigan, etc that have gone through bad times and it's been 2 almost 3 decades since their glory days, still pack the house, still donate a ton, etc. Same with UCLA, Indiana, etc in basketball.

Hell, look at Pitt basketball, we had a decade and a half great run. Packed the Pete, etc. The first sign of a downturn, people immediately stop going and want to fire everyone.

Schools like Pitt (which is the vast majority of D1 schools) can and will have spike, will have downturns, and for the most part, will spend long periods in the middle.

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Postby Morkle » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:56 am

I just meant "nothing" in terms of really any kind of atmosphere worth having. I'd choose a smaller stadium built for football 10 out of 10 over Pitt basketball, and I believe in large part they felt with Dixon they'd be around for a long time. That's also a consideration likely for money and donor support. They could have likely driven more revenue over a larger span of time with a football than basketball, but happy to be proven wrong there.

Just seems like in a football town, going with a basketball arena seemed suspect, considering the demographics lust for the game of football.

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Postby NAN » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:02 am

I just meant "nothing" in terms of really any kind of atmosphere worth having. I'd choose a smaller stadium built for football 10 out of 10 over Pitt basketball, and I believe in large part they felt with Dixon they'd be around for a long time. That's also a consideration likely for money and donor support. They could have likely driven more revenue over a larger span of time with a football than basketball, but happy to be proven wrong there.

Just seems like in a football town, going with a basketball arena seemed suspect, considering the demographics lust for the game of football.
Oh trust me, I'd love to have a 45K seat on campus stadium for Pitt football. I think there are also many barriers to have that though, some within Pitt's control, but most outside of it.

But I also feel for them to be taken seriously overall, they needed to get the BB teams out of the Fieldhouse too and build the Pete.

Pittsburgh is a football town, just not a college football town. Even at Pitt stadium, and even during the mid 70s to early 80s run, Pitt wasn't the tops in town and Pitt stadium was rarely filled unless it was PSU, WVU or ND in town, just like today.

I also don't think attendance would be any different at an on campus stadium than it is at Heinz Field. There would just be 20K less seats to be empty. But do agree with you that that does kill atmosphere.

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Postby Morkle » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:23 am

I just meant "nothing" in terms of really any kind of atmosphere worth having. I'd choose a smaller stadium built for football 10 out of 10 over Pitt basketball, and I believe in large part they felt with Dixon they'd be around for a long time. That's also a consideration likely for money and donor support. They could have likely driven more revenue over a larger span of time with a football than basketball, but happy to be proven wrong there.

Just seems like in a football town, going with a basketball arena seemed suspect, considering the demographics lust for the game of football.
Oh trust me, I'd love to have a 45K seat on campus stadium for Pitt football. I think there are also many barriers to have that though, some within Pitt's control, but most outside of it.

But I also feel for them to be taken seriously overall, they needed to get the BB teams out of the Fieldhouse too and build the Pete.

Pittsburgh is a football town, just not a college football town. Even at Pitt stadium, and even during the mid 70s to early 80s run, Pitt wasn't the tops in town and Pitt stadium was rarely filled unless it was PSU, WVU or ND in town, just like today.

I also don't think attendance would be any different at an on campus stadium than it is at Heinz Field. There would just be 20K less seats to be empty. But do agree with you that that does kill atmosphere.
I've just often wondered how many kids they've lost or acquired because of Heinz field. For Western PA kids at least, if your school is good, you've already played there to a 3/4's quarter empty stadium, and know that sucks. So the allure, isn't that big of a deal.

For a big time kid, there's zero atmosphere to talk about, and when you play up the "pro" card, let's be honest, these kids are seeing pros at camps, etc. Not a big deal.

I've just always been a fan of - play in your own stadium to build those long-lasting memories that you can point to (kind of like how Pitt does now back to the Dorsett days).

Pitt hitching it's wagon to Heinz basically impacted that decision going forward, that I don't know if they would ever have a chance at a stadium for football again.

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Postby NAN » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:50 am

I've just often wondered how many kids they've lost or acquired because of Heinz field. For Western PA kids at least, if your school is good, you've already played there to a 3/4's quarter empty stadium, and know that sucks. So the allure, isn't that big of a deal.

For a big time kid, there's zero atmosphere to talk about, and when you play up the "pro" card, let's be honest, these kids are seeing pros at camps, etc. Not a big deal.

I've just always been a fan of - play in your own stadium to build those long-lasting memories that you can point to (kind of like how Pitt does now back to the Dorsett days).

Pitt hitching it's wagon to Heinz basically impacted that decision going forward, that I don't know if they would ever have a chance at a stadium for football again.
I think at the end of the day, it's probably net neutral for the kids coming to play. Pitt for the most part will be in the 30-40 range rankings with an occassional visit to the top 25. They aren't a mega program with 100K fans and never will be.

In a perfect world though, where $$$, space, etc aren't a factor in deciding to do what is good for the overall athletic department, I'm in 100% agreeance having your own right sized stadium on campus is the way to go for the reasons you stated. There is a pagentry that is unique to college football that just can't be replicated at Heinz.

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Postby Stoosh » Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:40 pm

From a football standpoint, I don't think Heinz Field sells nearly as much to recruits as the practice facilities and the city itself do. Having Aaron Donald's name slapped on the weight room and his decisions to come back here to train so often seems to help. I'll have to find the articles, but a few recruits over the last couple of years commented on sharing practice facilities with the Steelers as a plus.

That said, it really seems to be the city that draws a lot of kids to the program, especially for kids from the southern states. It's kind of a strange phenomenon but for some reason, the program, the school, and the city have been a much easier sell to kids from out of state than it has for "local" kids. Again, I'll have to find the write-ups but it's something that I've seen a lot of in the comments from the kids and their families as to why the kids decide to come to Pitt - Pittsburgh as a city really resonates with them.

As far as Heinz Field, I think if the administration could do things differently now regarding an on-campus football stadium while still finding a way to keep The Pete, they would. At the time, though, I think a pitch for a 45,000-seat on-campus stadium would've been dismissed quickly. Given how much different things were in the late 1990s with conferences, television coverage, and revenue streams, I think the idea of "BIG STADIUM, MORE SEATS, MORE CLUB SEATS" was the priority. I also don't know if going to see a game in person is anywhere near the draw it used to be for fans, especially given that the viewing experience at home is so much better than it was 20+ years ago.

I honestly think Pitt officials looked at the excitement PNC Park was already generating at the time (2+ yrs before opening) and figured the idea of "NEW STADIUM AND THE STEELERS ALSO PLAY HERE" would sell itself to some significant degree and boost crowds. Maybe it worked for a bit. Attendance in 01-02 wasn't significantly different from Pitt Stadium years, but we had season tickets in 2003 and I remembered crowds being really great. It helped that they had Fitz. Sure, they drew the usual 66K for Notre Dame, but they also had more than 60K for each of the Syracuse, VT, and Miami games. I still say that VT game in 2003 is one of the three most insane crowds at Heinz Field, probably topped by the UPS-Pitt crowd in 2016 and the AFC championship when Polamalu picked off Flacco.

I'd love to see what the attendance would be if Pitt ever manages to put together a 10 or 11-win regular season, both for that season and the season after.

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Postby NAN » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:32 pm

That 2003 Pitt vs VT game was the craziest I've ever been too and still to this day the best FB game atmosphere. And I was at that AFC championship game when they beat the Ravens and the 2016 PSU game. Those were fantastic as well (same with the 2009 ND game), but that VT game was just different.

If Pitt had a 10 or 11 win season, I think you'd see some sellouts, or at least over 55K attendances at the end of the season. I mean look at the 2009 cincy game.

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Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:36 pm

I still say that the loudest Heinz field has ever been for a pitt game was during the Revis ESPY punt return.

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Postby willeyeam » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:41 pm

The 2009 Cinci game was pretty nuts if we don't consider how it ended

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Postby NAN » Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:21 am

https://pittsburghpanthers.com/news/202 ... ation.aspx

I know a lot of you guys could probably care less, but they unvieled all of the Peterson Sports Complex renovations for the baseball, softball, mens/womens soccer and the lacrosse team locker rooms, lounge areas, etc. Looks really nice.

My buddy played baseball for Pitt back in the 1990s and this wasn't even imaginable.

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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:29 am

That is a huge deal for recruiting.

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Postby willeyeam » Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:47 am

pretty awesome

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Postby Dickie Dunn » Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:34 pm

Nike coming back next season. Capel still has a lot of off-season work to do, but keeping the current roster contributors, including Campagnie, would be a big boost.

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Postby NAN » Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:51 pm

Pitt on their way to losing to Miami in the tourney and Champ had an absolutely pooh game. Foul shooting was absolutely crap too.

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Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:53 pm

Showing he’s not ready for the pros. At all.

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Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:56 pm

Showing he’s not ready for the pros. At all.
He's a valuable player and deserves the accolades. But his skillset isn't conducive to being "the man" at all.

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Postby NAN » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:44 pm

You guys ruined pitts season by getting excited after the Duke game.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:33 pm

Capel is going to try and run a basketball team with zero players.


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