So they aren’t sending Covid positive people back with any lingering cough or anything? I seriously doubt.Hospitals are not sending symptomatic COVID patients to nursing homes. They just aren’t.
COVID-19
-
- Posts: 8812
- Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:02 am
COVID-19
That’s not how it works. You send patients to nursing homes when they are stable enough to tolerate their stay at said nursing home. You don’t discharge people when they are still sick, especially not COVID. Physicians are going to willy nilly discharge patients with COVIDSo they aren’t sending Covid positive people back with any lingering cough or anything? I seriously doubt.Hospitals are not sending symptomatic COVID patients to nursing homes. They just aren’t.
COVID-19
If world meter numbers are accurate, Japan looks great with 6 deaths per million and only 129 cases per million. But as you said, their testing is very low so numbers may be way off. Sort of like the meaningless China numbers.Japan is really confounding. They didn't really.... do.... anything. Schools and sporting events were shut down, and the government declared a national emergency. But they haven't really had an explosive outbreak.I haven't heard anything about Japan in the news... how are they handling the virus? Japan is pretty densely populated, Tokyo is huge, they have an old population. All of these are factors that I've heard lead to high numbers, what's happening there?
There are some cultural differences that exist outside the context of COVID that probably have contributed - bowing as opposed to shaking hands, general hygienic good practices, proclivity to wear a mask in public, etc. But they aren't even testing to their full capacity, so it's possible their outbreak is much more widespread than is known and reported.
It's weird, because as a people the Japanese tend to be very paranoid about things like viral outbreaks; they are a densely-populated island nation where such things can be catastrophic, if not a borderline extinction-level event. And yet........
COVID-19
Everybody agrees with nobody that a COVID+ person shouldn't be sent into a LTCF.
But to beat up people that allowed or mandated that to happen is to ignore some reality when focusing on the effects of doing so:
A person in a LTCF gets sick. They go to the hospital and get tested. Now, they're either sick enough they need to stay and rehab or they aren't admitted and go back to the LTCF.
First, they got the virus in the LTCF, so it was already there and being passed around when their symptoms got bad enough to warrant testing.
Second, if they came to the hospital and weren't admitted, then their condition didn't medically call for it and they didn't receive results for days anyways. So you're supposed to use a hospital bed for days waiting on results, for a possible COVID+ patient, who's symptoms didn't necessitate an admit?
Third, if they were admitted, there was enough demand for hospital beds to try to turn people around as soon possible. So once they no longer need hospital level services, they were discharged to where they came from. In many cases that would have been the LTCF where they contracted the virus originally so it's not a reintroduction.
Is there a situation where a patient living at home successfully, contracts COVID and goes to the hospital, and is discharged into a non-hospice LTCF? If such a situation exists I have a hard time imagining its statistically significant.
So yes, admitting a COVID+ patient into a LTCF is a bad idea. Any new admit should have been denied with a positive test. But the effect of patients returning while possibly not having fully shed the virus is likely to be a drop in the ocean in terms of the viral load present at that facility.
Finally, I'd wager 98% of those people are on Medicare. There are very exact allowances for stays, billing, etc. for hospital care on Medicare. That's all run by Fedgov. If we're going to play perfect hindsight, Medicare could have absolutely changed their billing practices to provide an incentive to keep elderly COVID patients at the hospital longer to promote complete recovery (which could require frequent testing, at a time tests were not abundant). They had already stopped paying for "elective" procedures to free up hospital space, alterations in allowable billing weren't a hurdle.
But to beat up people that allowed or mandated that to happen is to ignore some reality when focusing on the effects of doing so:
A person in a LTCF gets sick. They go to the hospital and get tested. Now, they're either sick enough they need to stay and rehab or they aren't admitted and go back to the LTCF.
First, they got the virus in the LTCF, so it was already there and being passed around when their symptoms got bad enough to warrant testing.
Second, if they came to the hospital and weren't admitted, then their condition didn't medically call for it and they didn't receive results for days anyways. So you're supposed to use a hospital bed for days waiting on results, for a possible COVID+ patient, who's symptoms didn't necessitate an admit?
Third, if they were admitted, there was enough demand for hospital beds to try to turn people around as soon possible. So once they no longer need hospital level services, they were discharged to where they came from. In many cases that would have been the LTCF where they contracted the virus originally so it's not a reintroduction.
Is there a situation where a patient living at home successfully, contracts COVID and goes to the hospital, and is discharged into a non-hospice LTCF? If such a situation exists I have a hard time imagining its statistically significant.
So yes, admitting a COVID+ patient into a LTCF is a bad idea. Any new admit should have been denied with a positive test. But the effect of patients returning while possibly not having fully shed the virus is likely to be a drop in the ocean in terms of the viral load present at that facility.
Finally, I'd wager 98% of those people are on Medicare. There are very exact allowances for stays, billing, etc. for hospital care on Medicare. That's all run by Fedgov. If we're going to play perfect hindsight, Medicare could have absolutely changed their billing practices to provide an incentive to keep elderly COVID patients at the hospital longer to promote complete recovery (which could require frequent testing, at a time tests were not abundant). They had already stopped paying for "elective" procedures to free up hospital space, alterations in allowable billing weren't a hurdle.
-
- Posts: 8950
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:18 am
COVID-19
"My rights." Man, I'm so sick of hearing that.
-
- Posts: 14858
- Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:09 pm
- Location: Across the River from Filthydelphia.
COVID-19
I hate people.
COVID-19
Yeah, the only incident of contact tracing and testing in Japan I'm aware of was one non-symptomatic COVID carrier attending shows at a couple rock clubs in Osaka Valentine's Day weekend. They subsequently traced something like 100+ COVID cases to those two clubs from that weekend.If world meter numbers are accurate, Japan looks great with 6 deaths per million and only 129 cases per million. But as you said, their testing is very low so numbers may be way off. Sort of like the meaningless China numbers.Japan is really confounding. They didn't really.... do.... anything. Schools and sporting events were shut down, and the government declared a national emergency. But they haven't really had an explosive outbreak.I haven't heard anything about Japan in the news... how are they handling the virus? Japan is pretty densely populated, Tokyo is huge, they have an old population. All of these are factors that I've heard lead to high numbers, what's happening there?
There are some cultural differences that exist outside the context of COVID that probably have contributed - bowing as opposed to shaking hands, general hygienic good practices, proclivity to wear a mask in public, etc. But they aren't even testing to their full capacity, so it's possible their outbreak is much more widespread than is known and reported.
It's weird, because as a people the Japanese tend to be very paranoid about things like viral outbreaks; they are a densely-populated island nation where such things can be catastrophic, if not a borderline extinction-level event. And yet........
-
- Posts: 29195
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:45 pm
- Location: (=^_^=)
COVID-19
Are there any well respected epidemiologists who are touting the whole “it’s not as bad as we think” thing?
My main issue is that these idiots think they’re smarter than people who have literal doctorate degrees in this
I think healthy skepticism is important but thinking asked to wear a mask is some sort of government conspiracy is close to pants-on-head idiotic
My main issue is that these idiots think they’re smarter than people who have literal doctorate degrees in this
I think healthy skepticism is important but thinking asked to wear a mask is some sort of government conspiracy is close to pants-on-head idiotic
-
- Posts: 35313
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
- Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry
COVID-19
No offense to c2i, but just because you have a doctorate doesn't make you smart.
It just means you have persevered.
It just means you have persevered.
-
- Posts: 29195
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:45 pm
- Location: (=^_^=)
COVID-19
True, but I'm believing a person with a doctorate rather than a person without a doctorate and with a southern accent 9999/10000 timesNo offense to c2i, but just because you have a doctorate doesn't make you smart.
It just means you have persevered.
-
- Posts: 35313
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
- Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry
COVID-19
Your right.No offense to c2i, but just because you have a doctorate doesn't make you smart.
It just means you have persevered.
Might be an all-time bad take on the board, given the context of the remark.
No one with a doctorate has been wrong for the last three months. Only "non-scientists" are off-the-mark.
This weird fascination some people have with credentials is odd.
I'm in a doctoral program right now. I hope nobody thinks I'm smart just because I have letters before and after my name.
It's hilarious watching people say "He's a scientist!" like they are a shaman or something.
COVID-19
You know what epidemiology is the study of, correct?
It's hilarious to watch people who have no concept of public health or biology in general, or who outwardly deny science/scientific study try to tell us who we should or shouldn't believe.
It's hilarious to watch people who have no concept of public health or biology in general, or who outwardly deny science/scientific study try to tell us who we should or shouldn't believe.
Last edited by MR25 on Wed May 20, 2020 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 35313
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
- Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry
COVID-19
Study of the epidermis?
-
- Posts: 8812
- Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:02 am
COVID-19
What’s the point of the degree then? Whatever doctoral programs you’re in, I will now assume I have the same expertise and knowledge base that you have in that said area of expertiseYour right.No offense to c2i, but just because you have a doctorate doesn't make you smart.
It just means you have persevered.
Might be an all-time bad take on the board, given the context of the remark.
No one with a doctorate has been wrong for the last three months. Only "non-scientists" are off-the-mark.
This weird fascination some people have with credentials is odd.
I'm in a doctoral program right now. I hope nobody thinks I'm smart just because I have letters before and after my name.
It's hilarious watching people say "He's a scientist!" like they are a shaman or something.
This is basically the “I don’t want my president to be smart, I want him to be like me”
-
- Posts: 29195
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:45 pm
- Location: (=^_^=)
COVID-19
The study of doctoral degrees
-
- Posts: 29195
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:45 pm
- Location: (=^_^=)
COVID-19
This isn’t even a “doctorate” thing. I’m a software engineer by trade (no doctorate, thankfully). If we’re talking about something software related and you believe a mechanic who barely knows how to change their Facebook password over me in regards to a software discussion, you’re an idiot
COVID-19
Or your wife did everything for you. This applies to one of the people I know. Guy is a dumbass, wife definitely did his coursework and dissertation.No offense to c2i, but just because you have a doctorate doesn't make you smart.
It just means you have persevered.
-
- Posts: 35313
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
- Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry
COVID-19
It's like some of y'all have doctorates in missing the point.What’s the point of the degree then? Whatever doctoral programs you’re in, I will now assume I have the same expertise and knowledge base that you have in that said area of expertiseYour right.No offense to c2i, but just because you have a doctorate doesn't make you smart.
It just means you have persevered.
Might be an all-time bad take on the board, given the context of the remark.
No one with a doctorate has been wrong for the last three months. Only "non-scientists" are off-the-mark.
This weird fascination some people have with credentials is odd.
I'm in a doctoral program right now. I hope nobody thinks I'm smart just because I have letters before and after my name.
It's hilarious watching people say "He's a scientist!" like they are a shaman or something.
This is basically the “I don’t want my president to be smart, I want him to be like me”
"Well he has a doctorate..."
Is not an argument.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], skullman80 and 115 guests