2019-2020 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

[King Colby]

I went to about 25 games in 2015. Probably 20 in 2016. Maybe 3 a year since.

If its between 65 and 80 degrees and I get a good free seat, I'll take attendance under consideration.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

Yes. It's going to be an ugly 3 years. Attendance of 8000, 100 losses. Top 3 picks.

Whatever. If the alternative is going 75-87 and never improving the outlook, I'll take a repeat of 2008-2012 for a chance of doing 2013-2016 correctly.

Basically means my spring and summer arent quite as busy for the foreseeable future.

looking back at it, the guys that GMNH acquired were about 3 years younger than Cutch or about the same age as Cutch. I guess his plan was to find some guys to have a respectable lineup when Cutch got here. Turns out that Moss, Laroche, Morton, Cedeno, Clement, Ohlendorf (all born in 1983 or 1982, about 3 years older than cutch) all sucked, so the team stunk when cutch got here, but my point is that at least GMNH recognized that there was a punchers chance that the team would be good in the foreseeable future. GMBC clearly sees dark days ahead.

[Troy Loney]

Good rebuild trade, Pirates are also sending some money and getting international bonus money in the deal.

As for 2020, the lineup is now officially a disaster, the prime objectives I believe for this season are securing a top 2021 draft pick and rehabbing the values for Polanco and Archer so they can be moved.

To go along with a point both you and I have made (the point that not only did the 2019 roster lack playoff caliber players, the next wave of players (hayes, tucker, keller) may be major league contributors but aren't good enough to be impact players on playoff teams), the age of these players lead this gentleman to believe that the new regime believes that the rebuilding process is going to take a really, really long time because this pirate minor league system stinks.

Stinks is too strong a word. The system is probably more middle of the road and lacks any top 25 type prospect, so it's just that they aren't in any position to rebuild like the Astros and Cubs did. But, they could rebuild, like say the Padres or Braves did. I don't think the Pirates have any designs on being a bottom 3 team for 3-5 years (plus, the orioles, marlins and tigers are set on getting those top 3 picks for the next number of seasons).

So, as opposed to committing to be a basement dweller, like those three aforementioned teams, they are going to target some upside talent when dealing from their existing ML stock. Even in this era of unwillingness to move prospects for anything, the Pirates scooped up two of their best prospects for basically nothing (Watson for Cruz and Thomas for Luplow), teams are still willing to move those young, raw international guys that are still almost all projection. I think this guy they got for Marte is polished compared to where Cruz and Thomas were at acquisition.

Also worth noting, that even though this ML team is nowhere near competing, there are lots of movable pieces who all have years of control. So say Williams has a bounceback year, or Musgrove pitches like a workhorse, they are going to combine cheap salary, years of control and ML pedigree, someone like the Twins or Reds who view 2020 as a window year could pony up a prospect to add from the Pirates.

[Troy Loney]

Yes. It's going to be an ugly 3 years. Attendance of 8000, 100 losses. Top 3 picks.

Whatever. If the alternative is going 75-87 and never improving the outlook, I'll take a repeat of 2008-2012 for a chance of doing 2013-2016 correctly.

Basically means my spring and summer arent quite as busy for the foreseeable future.

looking back at it, the guys that GMNH acquired were about 3 years younger than Cutch or about the same age as Cutch. I guess his plan was to find some guys to have a respectable lineup when Cutch got here. Turns out that Moss, Laroche, Morton, Cedeno, Clement, Ohlendorf (all born in 1983 or 1982, about 3 years older than cutch) all sucked, so the team stunk when cutch got here, but my point is that at least GMNH recognized that there was a punchers chance that the team would be good in the foreseeable future. GMBC clearly sees dark days ahead.

I'm not sure GMNH was afforded the chance to do full rebuild, especially after the return he got for Cole. He was also preaching the continuous window idea of roster building and turnover. Maybe you'll see the new regime have more acceptance of limited windows of competing. Of course, that would imply the stance that once you are in a window, that you have to go all in and both sign FA's and trade top prospects.

[Dickie Dunn]

- They need to fully embrace the suck and get as much as possible for Bell. He's not going to be around for when this team doesn't suck ass and I don't think his presence is enough to change attendance.

- The one hope I have for the current crop of farmhands is that GMBC makes some changes that cause the best of the bunch to take an unexpected extra step forward. Hayes adds more power, Keller throws more than one pitch, Tucker becomes more than just a glove, Cruz finds a position and learns how to play it, Swaggy-T remembers that he's not getting paid to suck, etc.

[Freddy Rumsen]

[faftorial]

Man, no more Marte parties

[King Colby]

GMNH vision was continuously competing, and quickly bouncing back from down years (turnover years), like the rays do.

However that requires trading your best players at their peak value, and not after. They held on to Cutch 1 year too long, even though they ended up getting 2 good pieces for him. One year earlier they likely end up with at least one star prospect.

[LeopardLetang]

2 pretty exciting prospects. Good deal for both teams but it feels like Marte is slightly underrated. Way better than the Mets crap but another body would have been nice. Though we'll see with that int money i guess.

These kind of guys would have been good grabs to get as second and third targets in previous trades rather than the close to majors guys but whatever. I won't watch the pirates on tv again this year but this will add a bit to the 7+ teams in the minors i do enjoy keeping up on.

[Troy Loney]

These kind of guys would have been good grabs to get as second and third targets in previous trades rather than the close to majors guys but whatever. I won't watch the pirates on tv again this year but this will add a bit to the 7+ teams in the minors i do enjoy keeping up on.

Yeah, will be a good year for keeping tabs on the milb box scores each morning, here is how I'm seeing it now:

AAA - Likely see a lot of guys rotating back and forth from the majors. Overall, the roster is mostly prospects who progressed through the system to sort of see their stock stall in that AAA-AAAA level - Craig, Kramer, Jason Martin, Cole Tucker, Escobar. A couple of newcomers in Gleninding and Oliva, and then the return from injury of Brubaker.

AA - Headlined by Cruz and Bolton. I think Mason Martin, Swaggerty, and Mitchell may start in Bradenton, but could see the aggressive placement as Bradenton has lots of candidates to be moved up to that level. Robles and Kranick are a couple of pitchers that have been in the system for a number of years, and a mediocre 2020 will probably leave them exposed to being waived.

A+ - Bae, Castro, Herman, Sanchez, Macias on offense, Nothing really on the pitching side, maybe Macgregor returns here, or that Bido dude.

A- This Peguero dude, Inoa, Acuna, maybe some of the 2019 prep draft picks get an aggressive promotion like, Dixon, Siani, or Walker, Then I think Thomas and Florez on the staff will be the most intriguing.

[Gaucho]

I'm willing to play infield for a modest salary.

[willeyeam]

Malone in short season A?

[Dickie Dunn]

feels like Marte is slightly underrated

Agreed. Saw Mets fans refer to him as an "aging corner outfielder", which I found humorous since he's an extremely good centerfielder coming off the best offensive season of his career and only had down defensive metrics because he spent most of the year having to cover for Reynolds.

[Troy Loney]

Malone in short season A?

They have been sending prep pitchers to Bristol for their first season. I could see maybe Priester making the jump to Greensboro, but Malone, more likely to be in short season. Or, maybe, they will both be kept in extended spring training, then jump to Greensboro mid-season.

[Troy Loney]

feels like Marte is slightly underrated

Agreed. Saw Mets fans refer to him as an "aging corner outfielder", which I found humorous since he's an extremely good centerfielder coming off the best offensive season of his career and only had down defensive metrics because he spent most of the year having to cover for Reynolds.

This return is probably the best case scenario. I think Malone's progression is a complete wildcard, but seems like Peguero is almost assured to progress steadily through the system. For him to make it to low-A and hold his own as an 18 year old is impressive.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

feels like Marte is slightly underrated

Agreed. Saw Mets fans refer to him as an "aging corner outfielder", which I found humorous since he's an extremely good centerfielder coming off the best offensive season of his career and only had down defensive metrics because he spent most of the year having to cover for Reynolds.

I thought there were several occasions where marte just missed on balls because of crappy shifts. I do not fault marte for crappy shifts.

[faftorial]

[willeyeam]

no

[DigitalGypsy66]

Greg Brown weeps

[Beveridge]

Greg Brown weeps

Probably....

The only person on earth who is more positive than TL about the Pirates is that man.

[robbiestoupe]

Greg Brown weeps

Probably....

The only person on earth who is more positive than TL about the Pirates is that man.

TL has a ways to go to pass all Pirates broadcasters and the PG, plus some of the fanboi blogs out there.

[Freddy Rumsen]

[Dickie Dunn]

We hired a chicken to serve as GM!?!?

[Morkle]

So just get it over and trade Bell.

[willeyeam]

yes