2019 STILLERS Thread

[Morkle]

He seems like the guy that would get on that stretch machine to pull his joints out to make him taller.

[tifosi77]

Looked like something finally clicked with Mason to throw the ball downfield. It's a shame that his WRs didn't help him with the drops, but legitimately, if Mason keeps taking steps like this every week, I do wonder how far they'll go to convince themselves that Ben being the auto-starter is a given.

Ben wasn't really Ben when he was healthy last year, I'm legitimately not sure how his elbow will handle post-surgery, but I would worry if Mason continues to play well, how he'll react when they say Ben is coming back, is the #1, and will be allowed to work through mis-cues, given the age of Ben and Mason proving he can play enough that some team would trade for him and pay him more than a back-up salary.

I thought Mason played a pretty decent game. The Rams D is good. He needs to improve the pocket awareness a bit (though AD can make any QB look bad in the pocket) but I thought he played a pretty solid game. If his WRs could catch and hold onto the ball you'd be looking at a pretty nice stat line. Next year could be a little awkward. You'd hope Rudolph could take a couple more steps this year to show he's actually good. The chances will be there over the next 6 games (Browns 2x, Cinci, NYJ, Cards, Bills)

Agree completely. I just don't anticipate Ben being 100% healthy next year, and I think the conversation is much different then, especially if he continues on the trajectory he had last year where his interceptions became much more frequent.

I don't understand where this "Ben wasn't Ben last year" stuff comes from. He had career highs in attempts, completions, and yards, and his INT% was like 10th lowest of his career, his YPG was close to his best, and his overall rating was mid-90s. He threw more INTs because he was throwing more, generally; he basically had 18 games worth of attempts.

[count2infinity]

I can’t wait to see Switzer get Twitter mad about people being mean to him.

Here's how:

[Morkle]

He also had AB last year though. I can't say the same for this class unless they make improvements. His last game, with AB out (albeit wrecking the game plan), the offense went very pedestrian. I do believe his arm strength was wavering, as his long ball was spotty at a variety of crucial times last year. Now, compound that with an elbow that requires major surgery, I don't think anyone can really say what he's coming back as. Another year older, major surgery...yadda yadda.

[Morkle]

lol that Switzer thing is awful. Dude ran just far enough to completely stop because he knew he couldn't get the edge, so he turned right around BACK into a large group of guys getting wrecked. It was even less of a % to break a run with the latter than the former, thank god he can wave his hand for a fair catch though.

[NTP66]

Source of the post thank god he can wave his hand for a fair catch though.

This is why his arms are so jacked. Nobody is going to prevent him from calling for a fair catch.

[Troy Loney]

He’ll be 38, probably time to call it quits. Call me cynical, but I don’t believe Ben prescribes to the sort of diet and workout routine that would lend itself to playing into your 40’s

[tifosi77]

Funny how one game can really change people's perspective on Rudolph. He still has way too much to prove, imo. How many times have we seen in the game threads, "Mason is not an NFL QB?" There were throws yesterday that had me shaking my head.

He may grow out of it, but I am far from anointing him the QB of the future.

Seven games in, what were your thoughts on Ben? Because what I'm seeing with Rudy is a guy at the NFL level who has lost three games to arguably the three best three teams in the League this year (combined record of 21-4) by a combined total of 9 points.

Yes, he has accuracy issues and is working through a decision making disorder that's causing him to hold on to the ball 2x too long on many downs. But I feel better about Rudy's development at this point than I did Ben's at the same stage of 2004. I'm saying the trajectory is pointing to Rudy being a HOFer, but I'm also not at all worried about him as a starter going forward. He's gotten visibly better every game... shoot, you can see him improve by the snap the last couple weeks.

[willeyeam]

Is anyone else trying to make this Rudy thing happen or is that just tif?

[tifosi77]

Whooops.... I'm not saying the trajectory is pointing to Rudy being a HOFer.

Slight omission there on my part. lol

[count2infinity]

Is anyone else trying to make this Rudy thing happen or is that just tif?

Just tif.

[robbiestoupe]

Funny how one game can really change people's perspective on Rudolph. He still has way too much to prove, imo. How many times have we seen in the game threads, "Mason is not an NFL QB?" There were throws yesterday that had me shaking my head.

He may grow out of it, but I am far from anointing him the QB of the future.

Seven games in, what were your thoughts on Ben? Because what I'm seeing with Rudy is a guy at the NFL level who has lost three games to arguably the three best three teams in the League this year (combined record of 21-4) by a combined total of 9 points.

Yes, he has accuracy issues and is working through a decision making disorder that's causing him to hold on to the ball 2x too long on many downs. But I feel better about Rudy's development at this point than I did Ben's at the same stage of 2004. I'm saying the trajectory is pointing to Rudy being a HOFer, but I'm also not at all worried about him as a starter going forward. He's gotten visibly better every game... shoot, you can see him improve by the snap the last couple weeks.

Even as a Rudy non-apologist, that's a tough call to compare him to Ben. You realize he went 13-0 that year, right? He beat both Superb Owl participants that year, and rather easily as well. Not to mention, Ben took over for the great Tommy Maddox, who took over for Kordell Stewart, who took over for the Mike Tomczak/Jim Miller/whoever-can-throw-a-football era. Ben was a huge breath of fresh air vs. previous QB's. Rudolph has some big shoes to fill.

With that said, I still don't see the potential everybody else is talking about. He may prove me wrong, but I'd be surprised if he somehow realizes his hidden potential and becomes a bona fide #1 NFL QB. In today's game, you need more than just a game manager, you need a QB that can take over and win games.

[Morkle]

I don't believe you need a QB that can take over and win games. Not with a solid defense. Brady is the only QB that really takes it over in the playoffs, and he's the best QB ever.

There's been a whole slew of guys get to the SB, you saw one yesterday where all they had to do was make throws and the team around them helped.

Bortles, Manning/Osweiler, Eli, Goff, Foles to a degree, Flacco lol. Most of those guys had to make 1-4 fantastic throws, and the defense did the rest in the playoffs. A non-elite QB can survive and succeed at times. Brady is the only QB that's won multiple times.

[robbiestoupe]

Sure, but you better have an elite defense to go along with it. A decent amount of the QBs you listed had career years as well. I mean, if Rudolph can be Joe Flacco level, I'll take it (but not the contract).

[Morkle]

Sure, but you better have an elite defense to go along with it. A decent amount of the QBs you listed had career years as well. I mean, if Rudolph can be Joe Flacco level, I'll take it (but not the contract).

That's more or less what I was implying, every one of those teams had an elite defense, that was basically the way to stop Brady.

I believe you really just need that guy who won't break when you need a good throw, and you're set if the rest of the pieces are solid. It's exactly why there's the theory that you hear that you have the best chance to win with a young QB on a rookie contract. Once they get that big deal, it gimps you from building elsewhere.

NE is about the only team that's figure out how to replicate success without stars, and I think that's in large part to Brady being so good, his offense doesn't need the superstar WR or RB to produce.

[robbiestoupe]

I honestly think NE would win without Brady. Maybe not 6 SBs, but 3-4 wouldn't be out of the question.

[Morkle]

I think once Brady leaves, they're gonna need to get lucky on QBs again. I think that defense is elite-tier, and maybe that's where they pick up the 3-4, but they're gonna need to replace a QB who can make average WRs good.

[NTP66]

In other news, Conner and Foster could return on Thursday.

[Dickie Dunn]

I'm not sure Foster returning is good news.

[NTP66]

In my defense, I did say other news and not good news.

[robbiestoupe]

Source of the post they're gonna need to replace a QB who can make average WRs good throw 5 yards to a receiver/running back in stride

They also need Belichek to not croak

[tifosi77]

I think that defense is elite-tier...

I have not been a buyer on their defense at all this year. They opened with 8 straight games against chumps, and the first time they faced an actual offense they got pushed around and gave up 37 points. I don't doubt they'll beat PHI off the bye (does Belichick ever lose after a bye?), but after that they face DAL, HOU, and KC in consecutive weeks. That stretch will be the tale of the tape on this defense imo.

[tifosi77]

Funny how one game can really change people's perspective on Rudolph. He still has way too much to prove, imo. How many times have we seen in the game threads, "Mason is not an NFL QB?" There were throws yesterday that had me shaking my head.

He may grow out of it, but I am far from anointing him the QB of the future.

Seven games in, what were your thoughts on Ben? Because what I'm seeing with Rudy is a guy at the NFL level who has lost three games to arguably the three best three teams in the League this year (combined record of 21-4) by a combined total of 9 points.

Yes, he has accuracy issues and is working through a decision making disorder that's causing him to hold on to the ball 2x too long on many downs. But I feel better about Rudy's development at this point than I did Ben's at the same stage of 2004. I'm saying the trajectory is pointing to Rudy being a HOFer, but I'm also not at all worried about him as a starter going forward. He's gotten visibly better every game... shoot, you can see him improve by the snap the last couple weeks.

Even as a Rudy non-apologist, that's a tough call to compare him to Ben. You realize he went 13-0 that year, right? He beat both Superb Owl participants that year, and rather easily as well. Not to mention, Ben took over for the great Tommy Maddox, who took over for Kordell Stewart, who took over for the Mike Tomczak/Jim Miller/whoever-can-throw-a-football era. Ben was a huge breath of fresh air vs. previous QB's. Rudolph has some big shoes to fill.

With that said, I still don't see the potential everybody else is talking about. He may prove me wrong, but I'd be surprised if he somehow realizes his hidden potential and becomes a bona fide #1 NFL QB. In today's game, you need more than just a game manager, you need a QB that can take over and win games.

My point isn't to compare Rudy to 2018 Ben. It is simply to remind everyone that 2004 Ben was by no means an instant world-beater on the field. He put up very impressive QB rating numbers, while not being asked to do a whole lot. In fact, as you note, given the evolution of the game in the past 15 years, I'd say more is being asked of Rudy today than was being asked of Ben in '04, especially given the near complete absence of a rushing attack this year; Rudy already has three more 20+ completion games than Ben did as a rook, despite being only seven starts in. And he's on pace to surpass Ben's rookie TD mark with half as many picks, and at best he'll have played 2.5 fewer games by season's end than Ben did in '04.

The way I look at the snap-to-throw time being so long is because he's now looking downfield through his progressions, where the first few games if his first read wasn't there he immediately checked it down. That read time will quicken up, but it takes game reps that can't be simulated in practice. (Although, in a good way, I think his development here will be aided by the fact that he's practicing against what is shaping up to be a really solid secondary.) And his accuracy is not there yet; his throw window is too inconsistent right now, but again, that will come with reps.

All I'm saying is I don't have the jitters about Rudy now that nearly everyone else ITT seems to, and these are my reasons.

[Pavel Bure]

Yea, he's a high-level #2.

Oddly enough. It’s interesting to see how some #2 guys can put up “#1 numbers” in a lesser role but have a hard time when the best guys and double teams are on them.

Wallace and Brown
JJ Nelson and that other guy that had a beard and caught deep balls

I don’t have any other examples

[willeyeam]

I could be remembering wrong but I feel like Brown was #2 to Wallace when he came in