Non Political Current Events Thread

[Troy Loney]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capital ... d=64562882

"The Justice Department upholds the rule of law -- and we owe it to the victims and their families to carry forward the sentence imposed by our justice system," Barr said in the announcement.

[NTP66]

I'm okay with that.

[shmenguin]

“We will unilaterally say that we’re allowed to kill citizens, in order to provide nothing more than emotional satisfaction for the victims’ loved ones, under the guise of “justice” - despite the certainty that some of these individuals will actually be innocent going forward”.

I’m not very ok with it.

[count2infinity]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capital ... d=64562882

"The Justice Department upholds the rule of law -- and we owe it to the victims and their families to carry forward the sentence imposed by our justice system," Barr said in the announcement.

This set of words confused the hell out of me:

the Illinois Bayou in Arkansas

[count2infinity]

Btw... f*ck the death penalty.

[tifosi77]

The Innocence Project is now at +360 exonerations of death row inmates. There are currently around 3,000 inmates on death row in the US. That is a 10+% error rate, and that is unacceptable given the irreversable stakes.

[AuthorTony]

The Innocence Project is now at +360 exonerations of death row inmates. There are currently around 3,000 inmates on death row in the US. That is a 10+% error rate, and that is unacceptable given the irreversable stakes.

This.

[Troy Loney]

This is such a lovely story. Oh an F Bill Clinton.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Ray_Rector

Rector was subject to a unique overlap of controversies in 1992, during his execution in Arkansas. An oft-cited example of his mental insufficiency is his decision to save the dessert from his last meal "for later," which would have been after his execution.[8][9] In 2002, the U.S. Supreme Court banned the execution of people with mental retardation in Atkins v. Virginia, ruling that the practice constitutes cruel and unusual punishment; however, it is not clear that this ruling would have applied to Rector because his brain damage was caused by his suicide attempt after having committed the two murders for which he was convicted.

For his last meal, Rector requested and received a steak, fried chicken, cherry Kool-Aid, and pecan pie. As noted above, Rector left the pie on the side of the tray, telling the corrections officers who came to take him to the execution chamber that he was "saving it for later."[9][10] The slice of pecan pie was not disposed of until Rector had been executed.[11]

[tifosi77]

This is a serious subject worth of sober discussion. But I can't help picturing 'Ricky Ray Rector' as a David Spade character.

[shmenguin]

name 1 reason for the death penalty, other than temporary emotional gratification.

the risk/reward is not balanced, to say the least.

[dodint]

Cost savings over lifetime incarceration.

[NTP66]

Raping and/or murdering children = instant death penalty, and I will never change my stance on that.

[AuthorTony]

And what about the ones who are wrongly convicted? "Oh well, sucks to be them" I guess.

[willeyeam]

I'm very much on the fence on this. But to play devil's advocate:

as dodint said, $$$
deterrent (I'm sure there are studies that say it is and isn't a deterrent, I don't know)
yeah sure, gratification, justice, whatever you want to call it - if someone's dad was brutally murdered, maybe the kids deserve the right to see the guy killed

[NTP66]

And what about the ones who are wrongly convicted? "Oh well, sucks to be them" I guess.

Okay, so maybe not instant death penalty, but the end result for me is still going to be the death penalty.

[tifosi77]

I don't think many will argue that certain offenders have earned a slot in the solar cannon. And I would argue that if 'deserve' was a valid metric, there are actually more offences that could be caught up in this net than there current are. (For example, it is empirical that serial rapists, almost universally, cannot be rehabilitated.) But 'deserve' is a categorically flawed subjective measure when you're talking about a remedy that cannot be undone. You can release an exonerated prisoner, you cannot un-execute one.

Apply that Project Innocence error rate to history, and that means that possibly thousands of innocent people have been executed over the years. Roughly two dozen people were put to death in 2018; potentially two of them were innocent.

That's not cricket.

[AuthorTony]

There is no cost savings unless we remove the appeals process. And since men are being freed from death row every year, I think that would be a catastrophically horrible idea.

Numerous studies have shown the death penalty is not a deterrent.

When it comes to the vengeance aspect, this snippet always sticks in my mind:

We can, however, glean a little perspective from someone who has experienced both sides. Gordon "Randy" Steidl lived on death row and in the general prison population after his sentence was commuted to life. Wrongfully convicted, his sentence was eventually overturned. Today, Steidl has strong feelings about prison life, saying, "If you really want to kill someone, give them life without parole. It's worse than dying."

[NTP66]

Keep in mind that I'm specifically targeting crimes against children, but I don't think I'd feel that way if I were the parent.

[dodint]

There is no cost savings unless we remove the appeals process.

I don't feel like this statement can be supported by facts.

To tif's point about the Innocence Project, the technology available (DNA testing, cell phone tracking, etc) should lead to more certain outcomes in the same way it's leading to exonerations. That said, the common theme that won't get remedied out is the combination of overzealous prosecutors and ineffective defense counsel. Regardless I feel like the Project and its successes cuts both ways.

[AuthorTony]

My anti-death penalty stems largely from my distrust of law enforcement and the legal system. You have things like the Satanic Panic where daycare workers were accused of not only molesting and raping children, but of sacrificing them to the devil, and the system sending them to prison, only for it to later come out that it was all BS. You have the FBI sending out expert witnesses to testify that their hair, bite mark, and arson evidence was proof beyond all reasonable doubt, only for it to come out that all such evidence was junk science. You have corruption at every level of the system. It goes on and on. I could never, with a clean conscience, sit on a jury and sentence someone to death. That's not a burden I'd be willing to bear.

[AuthorTony]

I don't feel like this statement can be supported by facts.

There are actually several sources that say that it is, when you take into consideration the costs to prosecute, appeals, and the increased housing costs of "death row."
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2014 ... -expensive
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29552692/ns/u ... tion-cost/
https://scholarlycommons.susqu.edu/cgi/ ... ntext=supr
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphill ... f4de44664b
https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/which ... role-31614

[AuthorTony]

That said, the common theme that won't get remedied out is the combination of overzealous prosecutors and ineffective defense counsel.

This is another problem I have with the death penalty. The poor are sentenced to death at a far, far greater rich than someone who can afford to pay for an even adequate defense.

[mikey]

I don't feel like this statement can be supported by facts.

There are actually several sources that say that it is, when you take into consideration the costs to prosecute, appeals, and the increased housing costs of "death row."
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2014 ... -expensive
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29552692/ns/u ... tion-cost/
https://scholarlycommons.susqu.edu/cgi/ ... ntext=supr
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphill ... f4de44664b
https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/which ... role-31614

I hear this time and again...do any of the links go from [minute after conviction] to [end of life]?

[Willie Kool]

A 41-year-old Beaver Falls man is facing criminal homicide and aggravated assault charges after police say he fatally shot a 17-year-old pizza shop employee Friday on Highland Avenue because the boy "got his daughter on drugs or coke."

Michael J. D'Biagio was arraigned Saturday morning. D'Biagio admitted to police during questioning that he shot Darren Jevcak "five or six times" in a parking lot next to Scustie's Pizza Shop at 1101 Highland Ave., according to a criminal complaint.

New Castle Police Department officers were called to the pizza shop around 5:25 p.m., where they found Jevcak on the ground, unconscious, not moving and bleeding. Jevcak was treated on scene by McGonigle Ambulance Services, then transported to UPMC Jameson, where he was pronounced dead.

Police said that during questioning, D'Biagio said he had been learning all week about the relationship between his daughter and Jevcak. D'Biagio said his daughter had been sneaking out of the house to buy and smoke marijuana, while also using cocaine with Jevcak, according to the complaint.

D'Biagio said when he learned of this, he confronted his daughter. On Friday afternoon, when his daughter and wife were at a shopping mall, he contacted Jevcak asking where he was, with the boy replying that he was at the pizza shop. D'Biagio told police he then went to his bedroom and retrieved a gun, got in his car and drove to New Castle.

Once near the pizza shop, the complaint says, D'Biagio saw Jevcak come out of a back door and proceeded to shoot him multiple times.

"He realized he had shot Jevcak in the arm and Jevcak went down to the ground," the criminal complaint said. "D'Biagio said he shot Jevcak (again) so that he could put (him) out of his misery because (he) looked to be in shock."

A neighbor told police she looked outside her upstairs window and saw a man, later identified as D'Biagio, in a blue shirt with a gun pointed at Jevcak. She said D'Biagio shot at the victim, causing Jevcak to fall to the ground. She said D'Biagio then walked closer to the boy and shot him again.

The neighbor then reported that business owner Joseph Camerot and another employee came outside, and that D'Biagio then went back to his car, appeared to be reloading the magazine to his gun, then walked down the street. Camerot and the other employee were talking to D'Biagio during this, the neighbor told police, and D'Biagio put his gun down on the sidewalk and put his hands in the air, staying that way for two or three minutes. He then got up, grabbed his gun and walked back to the car, where he put his gun down and appeared to make a phone call.

https://www.ncnewsonline.com/news/local ... ea786.html

In cases like this, where there is no doubt, I'd be totally OK with it.

[mikey]

It's tough to reconcile my lack of desire to have the government take a life with my strong de-population stance...