Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Stoosh
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby Stoosh » Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:04 am

How large is the subset of Star Wars fans that are garbage humans?
From what I understand, it's not large in terms of volume but it manages to be pretty vocal and then of course it gets amplified because that's what attracts the attention. The first time I really noticed it was after those initial Force Awakens trailers when 1) Finn took his helmet off and 2) when we first saw Rey. They had problems with the whole "Black stormtrooper" thing. They had issues with the potential hero of the new trilogy cast being a woman, though I found out later that this sentiment started well before the trailers when the rumors began circulating that the new trilogy would be built around a girl. TLJ seemed to catapult things to a whole new level, mostly because of Rose's character and the way they thought Luke was handled.

They didn't like BoBF because Boba didn't spend the entire series talking in hushed tones and disintegrating everyone with his rifle.
Now they don't like Moses Ingram, I guess for the same reasons they didn't like Finn (weird how they never had a problem with Lando). They apparently don't like young Leia's character in Obi-Wan because of her attitude; I guess none of them have read any of the canon novels or comics that pretty much indicate Leia was always wise and perceptive well beyond her years when she was younger.
Every time Star Wars departs just the slightest from whatever head canon they built up in their smooth-brained minds, they do stuff like this. When Disney/Star Wars pushes back, they follow it up by whining about how poorly Disney treats their fans. They're not fans. They're adult men with filled diapers and they deserve every bit of scorn that they get.
Last edited by Stoosh on Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

eddy
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby eddy » Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:14 am

I thought Leia was best part of the first obi episode

nocera
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby nocera » Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:37 am

I thought Leia was best part of the first obi episode
The child actor is fine. The writing and direction is trash. That “chase” scene was one of the worst directed action sequences I’ve seen in a major release.

nocera
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Postby nocera » Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:40 am

Also, as I said in my initial review, Moses Ingram has not been good. It’s obviously not because of her race. (**** those dadholes). She was very good in Queens Gambit so most of the blame has to go to the writing and directing. Her character is a literal cartoon and does not fit in this world at all.

DigitalGypsy66
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:46 am

I don't know, but it's good to see Ewan as Obi-wan again. Full stop. The rest of it is what it is.

nocera
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby nocera » Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:58 am

He's the best part of the show in the same way that he was the best part of the prequels. It's a shame that they can't figure out a good story for him. I haven't watched ep 3 yet so maybe it's improving.

eddy
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby eddy » Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:18 am

I thought Leia was best part of the first obi episode
The child actor is fine. The writing and direction is trash. That “chase” scene was one of the worst directed action sequences I’ve seen in a major release.
It was horrible. We all laughed and seriously wondered what just happened. My kids have made better sequences in backyard with their camera. You literally have one person standing still and swiping to miss her and then the guy running into the tree. Holy ****, I have no idea how that made it on screen

Gaucho
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby Gaucho » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:13 am

I agree with tif, they went about this all wrong.

tifosi77
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:35 am

So we're not spoiler tagging in-progress shows anymore? Eh, the cat is out of the bag I guess.

Leia could've been an effective MacGuffin (rescuing the Princess is what got SW started 45 years ago). I'd go so far as to say that using her peril might be the only way to realistically get OWK back in the game without needing time to introduce and set up new character relationships. But since the audience knows who is facing the peril from the get-go we have absolutely zero investment in the action; as bad as the street-to-rooftop chase was from a staging POV, it's badness is magnified by the fact that we already know both she and OWK make it out of this predicament just fine and dandy. They've taken the main structural weakness of the idea of an OWK show and doubled down on it and made it even more of a problem. Obi-Wan is a character we know who survives another 10 years to sacrifice himself on DS1. He can't be running around the galaxy saving characters we also already know to survive well into the SW timeline beyond the four walls of this limited series. There is just no believable peril. They already introduced and killed off one other Jedi that could've served as a useful story companion for OWK, someone who could have something we could invest into as an audience...... nope, slaughtered off-camera 10 real-time minutes after you meet him.

Keep Leia's identity secret to the audience for as absolutely long as possible. None of the Alderaan stuff worked or was even necessary, showing her kidnapping stuff was not needed to motivate Obi-Wan to action (Obi-Wan didn't witness it, the audience doesn't need to see it). All it did was deny the audience any chance at emotional investment in the action.

tifosi77
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:45 am

This is one of the reasons why Ahsoka was such a great addition to the canon. Story-wise Clone Wars takes place entirely between Eps II and III. Her (initial) character arc begins and ends within the boundary of that 5-ish year period of story. She is brough in as her own being and draped around characters (Akanin, OWK, Yoda, etc) we know all survive well past the timeline....... but we don't know what happens with her story, so she brings stakes. She adds weight to Anakin's story and provides additional 'ammunition' for his fall to the Dark Side (e.g. the Jedi Council's (mis)treatment of her), but still has her own compelling character development (culminating with her fight with Vader in Rebels, which is one of my favorite SW moments of all time).

tifosi77
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:45 am

Also, as I said in my initial review, Moses Ingram has not been good. It’s obviously not because of her race. (**** those dadholes). She was very good in Queens Gambit so most of the blame has to go to the writing and directing. Her character is a literal cartoon and does not fit in this world at all.
You are wrong, and I will leave you to wallow in your (one must assume blissful) wrongness.

Gaucho
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby Gaucho » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:47 am

The only real mystery is why Ben aged so much over the next decade.

I also find it hard to believe that he only now realizes who Vader is.

DigitalGypsy66
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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:54 am

If the timing is accurate (ten years before A New Hope), MacGregor and Guinness would be about the same age.

Ewan was 50 or 51 when they filmed this show; Guinness was 62-63 when A New Hope filmed in 1976.

Also, the dry climate of Tattoine is hell on your health. :lol:

nocera
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Postby nocera » Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:00 pm

Also, as I said in my initial review, Moses Ingram has not been good. It’s obviously not because of her race. (**** those dadholes). She was very good in Queens Gambit so most of the blame has to go to the writing and directing. Her character is a literal cartoon and does not fit in this world at all.
You are wrong, and I will leave you to wallow in your (one must assume blissful) wrongness.
It's honestly annoying how right I am. If you look around at reviews and discussions, you'll see that's not a hot take at all. She along with the rest of the inquisitors are the weakest part of the show. Unless something happens in episode 3 that suddenly improves the writing and characters...

tifosi77
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:05 pm

The only real mystery is why Ben aged so much over the next decade.

I also find it hard to believe that he only now realizes who Vader is.
Ewan MacGregor is age-appropriate for the character at this point in the story. (Alec Guinness was only 60 or 61 when SW was filmed.) (Edit: Whoops, didn't see DG had already posted this.)

But this is something I hope gets fleshed out in further detail as this show progresses. OWK takes place roughly ten years after Ep III. During that time, Vader was not supremo right-hand-man guy to Palpatine, in terms of running the Empire. He's his Sith apprentice, sure. But to everyone else in the Empire, he's.......... kind of a tool. Even right up to what's shown of him on camera in Rogue One and Ep IV he's still just kind of Palpatine's errand boy as regards Empire stuff. Actual Imps generally don't exactly regard him with an excess of respect, and to the extent he has a reputation it is as being more of a novelty goon than the Big Bad. Vader was a largely anonymous figure throughout the galaxy through this period of time; when he's is encountered for the first time in Rebels, the characters Kanan and Ezra - a Jedi and his Padawan - don't know who (or more accurately what) he even is. Ahsoka - Anakin's Padawan - doesn't know who Vader is until she damages his mask in their duel. Vader doesn't really rise to the fore within the Empire until the destruction of DS1.

I haven't watched OWK Ep3 yet, so maybe this is already discussed. But as of Ep2, we don't know that Kenobi realizes who Vader is, he only learns that Anakin is still alive. Two different ideas.
Last edited by tifosi77 on Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

tifosi77
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:12 pm

Also, as I said in my initial review, Moses Ingram has not been good. It’s obviously not because of her race. (**** those dadholes). She was very good in Queens Gambit so most of the blame has to go to the writing and directing. Her character is a literal cartoon and does not fit in this world at all.
You are wrong, and I will leave you to wallow in your (one must assume blissful) wrongness.
It's honestly annoying how right I am. If you look around at reviews and discussions, you'll see that's not a hot take at all. She along with the rest of the inquisitors are the weakest part of the show. Unless something happens in episode 3 that suddenly improves the writing and characters...
These reviews and discussions, are they by and between real fans? People who think the Holdo Maneuver ruins space battles forever? Who think it would've been better for Finn to become a foster parent in the middle of a covert military operation than use the tools available to him to escape his peril and continue on saving the galaxy?

Inquisitors - fallen Jedi as Force-sensitive bounty hunters - are cool. They are, roughly 2 hours into this world, the only thing I have found the slightest bit interesting or compelling.

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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby Gaucho » Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:20 pm

If the timing is accurate (ten years before A New Hope), MacGregor and Guinness would be about the same age.

Ewan was 50 or 51 when they filmed this show; Guinness was 62-63 when A New Hope filmed in 1976.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

nocera
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Postby nocera » Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:24 pm

These are from television critics and users on regular subreddits like r/television. The only place where I'm seeing overwhelming praise is r/starwars. 2 episodes into a 6 episode series and the big baddies are laughably bad. They're going full camp in a series that appears to be taking itself more seriously than that. Again, I haven't watched episode 3 yet and maybe the inquisitors are cool in the cartoon or other media... maybe even the idea of them is cool... but they suck here.

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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby nocera » Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:28 pm

The only real mystery is why Ben aged so much over the next decade.

I also find it hard to believe that he only now realizes who Vader is.
I haven't watched OWK Ep3 yet, so maybe this is already discussed. But as of Ep2, we don't know that Kenobi realizes who Vader is, he only learns that Anakin is still alive. Two different ideas.
Didn't Obi Wan watch a hologram where Anakin slaughter younglins and then kneels before Sidious as he calls him "Lord Vader?"

If they're saying that Kenobi is just know realizing who Vader is, that's some serious retconning.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:50 pm

This is the same galaxy where changing your first name but not your surname is considered a disguise.

nocera
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Postby nocera » Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:04 pm

But he saw it. I don't think that's something he'd forget. He doesn't know that Anakin survived Mustafar and is more machine now than man, but he should know the name Vader.

eddy
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby eddy » Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:13 pm

I've only seen one episode, but have no issues with the inquisitors

eddy
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Postby eddy » Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:15 pm

Correction. They are pretty bad at their job when obi literally is just standing around the corner from them while they've been looking for him. Not very smart.

nocera
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby nocera » Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:17 pm

Moses Ingram is better in episode 3. Her performance is much more subtle and subdued. Unfortunately I can't say the same for the other inquisitors. Leia was also better. Deborah Chow still has no idea how to shoot action, though.

Ep 3 spoilers:
I don't know how I feel about the Vader confrontation. Where Rogue One enhanced the original films, this feels like it does the opposite. It makes their reunion and fight in ANH less special. What's worse, it feels like we're going to get another confrontation before this series is over.

tifosi77
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Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:23 pm

But he saw it. I don't think that's something he'd forget. He doesn't know that Anakin survived Mustafar and is more machine now than man, but he should know the name Vader.
It's not so much that Obi-Wan is only now realizing who Vader is, it is that he is just now learning that Vader (still) is.

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