Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

Lemon Berry Lobster
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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:58 pm

Why did Rose and Finn save the animals and not the children?

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:59 pm

The animals can survive on their own. Saving the children would've made them the adoptive parents of a dozen youngsters and slowed, if not scuppered, the mission.

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Postby tifosi77 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:00 pm

Seriously, these are the gripes? Do you not put an ounce of thought into anything?

nocera
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Postby nocera » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:02 pm

Well, there are certain times when that sort of criticism is valid and a totally accurate description of the entire movie. Like, for example, Prometheus. To paraphrase Adam Savage's review, if you didn't already think that was a terrible movie, you can ruin it by simply asking yourself 'why did anyone do anything?'
I haven't seen Prometheus. Is that referring to motivation?

The criticism of TLJ that I hate to see is "Why didn't Holdo just tell Finn the plan!?" Well, because she did what she thought was right and turns out she made a bad decision because of her inexperience as a leader and mistrust of Finn. And also because if she did that, there wouldn't be a story for many of our main characters.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:27 pm

And by Finn, you mean Poe. :wink:

Re Prometheus,
there is no action that any character takes that can be believably explained by the story. They travel three years across space and find the aliens by looking left about 30 seconds after arriving. The boss scientist 'chooses to believe' things. The geologist who brings a 3D laser mapping tool gets lost. (Which the mapping tool is able to transmit its data back to the mothership during a sand storm, but voice comms don't work. Go fig.) The other scientist goes into an alcoholic depression because the aliens are dead, never mind that such a discovery would still be the grand discovery of human existence. The two prettiest people in the crew have sex, because what else are they supposed to do. The Engineer wakes up from hypersleep, and the android addresses him in his own language, apparently saying "this old man is here to steal your Creation Magic; you should rip my head off and bludgeon him to death with it". It's such a beautiful mess of a movie. I feel like I should watch it again, but follow the Adam Savage advice of watching it in a foreign language with English subtitles.

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Postby nocera » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:30 pm

And by Finn, you mean Poe. :wink:

Re Prometheus,
there is no action that any character takes that can be believably explained by the story. They travel three years across space and find the aliens by looking left about 30 seconds after arriving. The boss scientist 'chooses to believe' things. The geologist who brings a 3D laser mapping tool gets lost. (Which the mapping tool is able to transmit its data back to the mothership during a sand storm, but voice comms don't work. Go fig.) The other scientist goes into an alcoholic depression because the aliens are dead, never mind that such a discovery would still be the grand discovery of human existence. The two prettiest people in the crew have sex, because what else are they supposed to do. The Engineer wakes up from hypersleep, and the android addresses him in his own language, apparently saying "this old man is here to steal your Creation Magic; you should rip my head off and bludgeon him to death with it". It's such a beautiful mess of a movie. I feel like I should watch it again, but follow the Adam Savage advice of watching it in a foreign language with English subtitles.
:face: Yes, I mean Poe.

Re Prometheus, that sounds like poor/lazy writing and plot contrivances rather than characters making bad choices because they're flawed. So I concede that there are times when that sort of criticism is valid.

eddy
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Postby eddy » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:34 pm

I enjoy when tif gets worked up talking about Prometheus.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:43 pm

I do not think it is an outrageous statement to say that character development was handled poorly in TLJ. And the dialogue was not good....by any stretch of the imagination. From that first cringey dialogue between Hux and Poe in the opening sequence, when Hux was transformed from a scary, ruthless Imperial general into the butt of a joke, the writing was just not good. As a Star Wars movie it still delivered the goods, but it was chock full of holes from a character development/writing standpoint.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that statement.

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Postby tifosi77 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:47 pm

Except about 90% of it.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:51 pm

Poe: Hi, I'm holding for General Hugs.
Hux: This is Hux. You and your friends are doomed. We will wipe your filth from the galaxy!
Poe: [pauses] Okay, I'll hold.
Hux: Hello?
Poe: Hello? Yup, I'm still here.
Hux: Can you— can he hear me?
Poe: Hugs?
Captain Canady: He can.
Poe: With an 'H'? Skinny guy? Kinda pasty?
Hux: [becoming increasingly annoyed] I can hear you. Can you hear me?
Poe: Look, I can't hold forever. If you reach him, tell him Leia has an urgent message for him...
Canady: I believe he's tooling with you, sir.
Poe: [snarkily and smugly] ...about his mother.
That's top notch dialogue there.

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Postby eddy » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:53 pm

Poe: Hi, I'm holding for General Hugs.
Hux: This is Hux. You and your friends are doomed. We will wipe your filth from the galaxy!
Poe: [pauses] Okay, I'll hold.
Hux: Hello?
Poe: Hello? Yup, I'm still here.
Hux: Can you— can he hear me?
Poe: Hugs?
Captain Canady: He can.
Poe: With an 'H'? Skinny guy? Kinda pasty?
Hux: [becoming increasingly annoyed] I can hear you. Can you hear me?
Poe: Look, I can't hold forever. If you reach him, tell him Leia has an urgent message for him...
Canady: I believe he's tooling with you, sir.
Poe: [snarkily and smugly] ...about his mother.
That's top notch dialogue there.
worked for me and the rest of the theater that was laughing (every time I saw it)

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Postby nocera » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:58 pm

Interestingly enough, the part of the Plinkett review I just watched has to do with how TLJ is actually constructed as a comedy. Obviously he's using that as a negative but it's also going to be highly subjective. For some, the comedic moments will totally work. For others, they don't want any sort of outright humor in their Star Wars movies. Most of the comedy worked for me, though I will admit that the stuff that missed, missed really badly. Namely Luke milking that space cow thing...

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Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:02 pm

For others, they don't want any sort of outright humor in their Star Wars movies. Most of the comedy worked for me, though I will admit that the stuff that missed, missed really badly. Namely Luke milking that space cow thing...
I enjoy humor when it is done well, especially in movies like Star Wars. It did feel like there was an awfully high amount of comedy in this film, much more so than TFA. Chewie and the damn Porg in the Falcon is another good example, when it gets smushed against the window. Then again, they are trying to heavily market this film for children, so that's not so surprising.

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Postby tifosi77 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:55 pm

Who is Poe Dameron in this trilogy? He's Han Solo..... not in the sense of the swashbuckling pilot (well, he's that, too), but in the sense of he's the guy in the fantasy universe who is commenting on the absurdity of everything, the avatar for the audience. Movies like this just don't work without someone winking at you.

The first scene of TLJ is about setting Poe up as an unwitting foil for the Resistance, because of his brashness. How do you think that guy is going to interact with General Hux? (Who is a character that has already been revealed as something of a scene-chewing caricature of a military leader.) Poe's not going to be super serious in his interactions; this is the guy who's first exchange with Kylo Ren is a joke, observing how silly Ren looks and sounds in that mask. He's going to be Maverick-flipping-the-MiG-pilot-the-bird. He's Han telling the dude on the radio "We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?".

There is nothing wrong with that scene, and you are a poo poo head.

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Postby Silentom » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:35 pm

^Boring conversation anyway.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:43 pm

I will probably like the RLM review. ;)

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Postby eddy » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:28 pm

Matt Smith joins episode 9. Cool.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:58 pm

I finally watched the whole Plinkett review. It is definitely well done. He is right in that it felt like every failure on the part of the protagonists was a result of severe ineptitude or bumbling around like idiots, and it seemed like none of them progressed beyond that. Like the successor to Ackbar keeping her plan a big secret for absolutely no reason. They survived in spite of their own stupidity.

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Postby Spangler » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:12 pm

Who is Poe Dameron in this trilogy? He's Han Solo..... not in the sense of the swashbuckling pilot (well, he's that, too), but in the sense of he's the guy in the fantasy universe who is commenting on the absurdity of everything, the avatar for the audience. Movies like this just don't work without someone winking at you.

The first scene of TLJ is about setting Poe up as an unwitting foil for the Resistance, because of his brashness. How do you think that guy is going to interact with General Hux? (Who is a character that has already been revealed as something of a scene-chewing caricature of a military leader.) Poe's not going to be super serious in his interactions; this is the guy who's first exchange with Kylo Ren is a joke, observing how silly Ren looks and sounds in that mask. He's going to be Maverick-flipping-the-MiG-pilot-the-bird. He's Han telling the dude on the radio "We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?".

There is nothing wrong with that scene, and you are a poo poo head.
The problem I have with that scene has more to do with Hux than Poe. Of course Poe is going to say something to cause Hux to loose focus, but I didn't expect Hux to fall for it and act like a total buffoon. I hate Hux's character and prefer a Tarkin-type to lead something as serious as the First Order. You could say that's the point of the character, but I still disagree with it on a fundamental level.

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Postby tifosi77 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:23 pm

But it doesn't have more to do with Hux. The only story point that lives beyond that opening is Poe's demotion. It is the kickoff for his arc. Hux has no real arc.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:32 pm

Yes to every word.

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Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:17 pm

Yes to every word.
I knew it wasn’t worth watching.

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Postby nocera » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:42 pm

Bob Iger Talks Disney's Streaming Service, 'Roseanne,' James Gunn and a Coming 'Star Wars' "Slowdown"
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ ... ce=twitter
Many believe Disney should pump the breaks and not put out a Star Wars movie each year.
I made the timing decision, and as I look back, I think the mistake that I made — I take the blame — was a little too much, too fast. You can expect some slowdown, but that doesn't mean we're not gonna make films. J.J. [Abrams] is busy making [Episode] IX. We have creative entities, including [Game of Thrones creators David] Benioff and [D.B.] Weiss, who are developing sagas of their own, which we haven't been specific about. And we are just at the point where we're gonna start making decisions about what comes next after J.J.'s. But I think we're gonna be a little bit more careful about volume and timing. And the buck stops here on that.
Regardless of how you feel about TLJ, this is probably a good idea.

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Postby Dickie Dunn » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:49 pm

Bob Iger Talks Disney's Streaming Service, 'Roseanne,' James Gunn and a Coming 'Star Wars' "Slowdown"
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ ... ce=twitter
Many believe Disney should pump the breaks and not put out a Star Wars movie each year.
I made the timing decision, and as I look back, I think the mistake that I made — I take the blame — was a little too much, too fast. You can expect some slowdown, but that doesn't mean we're not gonna make films. J.J. [Abrams] is busy making [Episode] IX. We have creative entities, including [Game of Thrones creators David] Benioff and [D.B.] Weiss, who are developing sagas of their own, which we haven't been specific about. And we are just at the point where we're gonna start making decisions about what comes next after J.J.'s. But I think we're gonna be a little bit more careful about volume and timing. And the buck stops here on that.
Regardless of how you feel about TLJ, this is probably a good idea.
Personally, I don't think a Star Wars movie every year is an issue. They should have embraced the the December release dates of the first three movies of the Disney era and delayed Solo. Five months between Star Wars movies wasn't enough. I think the series will also benefit from more creators looking to tell different stories. The MCU releases multiple movies each year to huge financial success largely because each movie is different. Star Wars movies have a sameness that makes oversaturation easy.

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Postby tifosi77 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:56 pm

I agree. Own the holiday season with the annual Star Wars movie, alternating saga and SW Story releases.

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