Star Wars discussion (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

[nocera]

Jones recorded new dialog for both Rebels and Rogue One, if I'm not mistaken.

Ah yeah I added a T. It should’ve been ROS (rise of skywalker)

[eddy]

Correct, it's both more and less and it's all good.

[Gaucho]

grittier

[tifosi77]

Did JEJ record anything new for ROS though? Be honest with you, I really don't remember.

[nocera]

Did JEJ record anything new for ROS though? Be honest with you, I really don't remember.

That’s what the Vanity Fair article stated. I don’t remember it in the film either though.

[nocera]

By the way, I love that he was able to retire and give consent to use his voice likeness. It makes the use of AI feel much less creepy than, say, Peter Cushing.

[tifosi77]

Cushing died in the 90s, but his estate was on board and cooperative. (I think they supplied the life cast of his face ILM used for texture mapping, or whatever it's called.) As far as voice goes, I thought the actor who did the on-set performance capture also did the voice? Maybe I'm just not remembering correctly, but I thought the first time they did AI vox was for Luke in Mando.

[DigitalGypsy66]

So we have sex, bodily function, and the Corpo security guy says s h i t. That's got to be another first in the Star Wars cinematic universe (a quick Google search informed me that **** was used in at least one novel).

Really enjoyed the first three episodes. Gritty? Dark? Whatever. It was really good, and it's good to get out of the Jedi/Skywalker stuff.

[nocera]

Cushing died in the 90s, but his estate was on board and cooperative. (I think they supplied the life cast of his face ILM used for texture mapping, or whatever it's called.) As far as voice goes, I thought the actor who did the on-set performance capture also did the voice? Maybe I'm just not remembering correctly, but I thought the first time they did AI vox was for Luke in Mando.

Resurrecting a dead actor using CGI without the consent of that actor is creepy. Hell, it’ll be creepy with consent. Maybe one day it’ll be so commonplace that it won’t feel weird but it is not this day. It might be just me but it gives me the heebie jeebies.

Imagine Disney making a new Aladdin and using the AI voice tech to have Robin Williams voice the new genie. At least now when we hear Vader after JEJ has passed we’ll know that he gave his consent.

[Beveridge]

You just hit on the future of movies.

We won't do reboots, we'll do originals with CGI actors in their place.

[tifosi77]

Cushing died in the 90s, but his estate was on board and cooperative. (I think they supplied the life cast of his face ILM used for texture mapping, or whatever it's called.) As far as voice goes, I thought the actor who did the on-set performance capture also did the voice? Maybe I'm just not remembering correctly, but I thought the first time they did AI vox was for Luke in Mando.

Resurrecting a dead actor using CGI without the consent of that actor is creepy. Hell, it’ll be creepy with consent. Maybe one day it’ll be so commonplace that it won’t feel weird but it is not this day. It might be just me but it gives me the heebie jeebies.

Imagine Disney making a new Aladdin and using the AI voice tech to have Robin Williams voice the new genie. At least now when we hear Vader after JEJ has passed we’ll know that he gave his consent.

I don't know if you're aware of the specifics about Williams/Aladdin, but Robin put it in his will that he expressly forbade any posthumous use of his voice for the character of Aladdin for 25 years. (Such was the **** of Katzenberg-era Mouse.) That was one soured relationship there.

In the case of James Earl Jones, he signed over the rights to his archival performance as Vader during the recording process during that session for ROS. (I thought it was more current than that) He serves as sort of a "Vader Emeritus" now and until his eventual passing or complete retirement from work (guy's in his 90s, let him be).

Some of the other CG uses to recreate actual people do open up ethical considerations. I'm less concerned about the likes of Paul Walker or Carrie Fisher (for EpIX in particular) or Oliver Reed a generation ago in Gladiator, as they had agreed to be in those movies before their passing, so the effects are just contributing to the completion of their agreed service. Regarding the total construction of a performance from scratch, I don't think we're likely to see many instances of an actor being included in something totally against their wishes, which is the big issue imo. The Cushing estate and Fisher herself signed off on the Rogue One stuff, and for that film we're not just talking about the likeness of the actor, but the 45-years ago likeness of the actor. And as far as the use of deceased actors goes, consent from the estate is about the only legal hurdle that must be cleared. To the extent the ethical considerations are meaningful, the boxoffice will tell that story clear enough. I'm far more worried about the widespread use of this technology outside the entertainment VFX context.

Recasting has its own hurdles, creatively, because you're not just recasting a role in cases like this, you're casting someone to do an impression. (Given the story of Rogue One, I want Peter Cushing as Tarkin, or I don't want Tarkin. There isn't a satisfying middle ground to tread there imo.)

[nocera]

I just picked Williams at random but that’s really interesting. I’m sure Disney already has 2034 circled on their calendar for Aladdin 2.

To be clear, Im not arguing the greater ethical or legal considerations of using a CGI recreation of an actual person (living or dead). I’m just saying that personally it gives me the creeps. For Rogue One, I get wanting to have Tarkin but id rather it be used sparingly or rather not at all. Create a second in command who reports to Tarkin off screen. We’d forgive it because the dude is dead. For Leia’s appearance, I would’ve been happier to just see the back of her head or her hands when she says her line. That isn’t so much because of the creepiness but because the tech wasn’t ready for that. It looks like a video game.

[tifosi77]

I have a friend who works in VFX, previz. I will never - as long as I live - watch a movie with him. There is no such thing as 'enjoying the moment'. He's the professional version of concert goers who pay premium prices for ticket and leave with no memory of the event save for what they watched through their phone camera.

[Gaucho]

Huh, I didn't recognize the Waif.

[Freddy Rumsen]

I really tried to watch the second episode of Andor.

Really.

My goodness this serves no rational purpose.

Even @tifosi77 can't defend this trash.

[tifosi77]

That is, on a number of levels, a finalist for the Silly Post Awards.

[Freddy Rumsen]

There is no plot, no explanation, and a lazy Star Wars trope droid.

Harry Potter's step-mom is totally pointless.

[tifosi77]

Oh, Freddy...........

[nocera]

I absolutely love Coruscant in this. It's really beautiful and depressing.

[tifosi77]

I really liked the dressing up scene with Luthen. Reminded me of the first 5 minutes of Schindler's List, with Oskar putting his game face on. I hope that's not accidental, because the parallels are pretty obvi.

As i get more time away from Ep 4 I am also like 50/50 that we'll meet a post-Order 66 Jedi, or at least someone with some connection to the Force a la Chirrut and Baze in RO. The deep cut references in dialogue and set decoration are too enticing. When Luthen said his kyber crystal necklace was worth more (than 50k) to him, maybe he meant it in the sense that he appreciates its worth being more than its value as a commodity....his collapsing walking stick that visually mimicks a lightsaber. There's some Force-y stuff afoot there.

[eddy]

Finally got caught up, dang this show is good

[eddy]

Ep 4

So in Luthens shop, we see what appears to be the Jedi stone tablet that Ezra uses in rebels for the world between worlds. I can't remember the details of rebels, would this be the same key or did he have a different one?

[tifosi77]

Ep 4

So in Luthens shop, we see what appears to be the Jedi stone tablet that Ezra uses in rebels for the world between worlds. I can't remember the details of rebels, would this be the same key or did he have a different one?

Yes, I think it's the same one.

He's also got a Twi'lek Kalikori (the three-limbed totem like what was carried by Hera Syndulla of the Ghost cell; Mandalorian armor; the Starkiller armor; both Jedi and Sith holocrons; and tho I did not notice it myself I've seen others point out that he also has what appears to be a bullwhip frozen in carbonite.

If at any point we get reference to a hidden agent called 'Fulcrum' I will squee.

But we can't talk about the cartoons and supplementary material fleshing out the characters and narrative because that's no good.

[eddy]

Ep 4

So in Luthens shop, we see what appears to be the Jedi stone tablet that Ezra uses in rebels for the world between worlds. I can't remember the details of rebels, would this be the same key or did he have a different one?

Yes, I think it's the same one.

He's also got a Twi'lek Kalikori (the three-limbed totem like what was carried by Hera Syndulla of the Ghost cell; Mandalorian armor; the Starkiller armor; both Jedi and Sith holocrons; and tho I did not notice it myself I've seen others point out that he also has what appears to be a bullwhip frozen in carbonite.

If at any point we get reference to a hidden agent called 'Fulcrum' I will squee.

But we can't talk about the cartoons and supplementary material fleshing out the characters and narrative because that's no good.

are rebels and Andor happening at the same time? I thought that was the case, but wasn't sure how the tablet could be at the same place during the same time?

I think it's only a matter of time for fulcrum in this show.

[tifosi77]

Yup

Rebels and Andor are both set 5 BBY.

Fun fact: Andor is the first on-screen reference to the Galactic Standard Calendar. And since it references 'BBY' that means the story is being told ABY; there is no 'BBY' time period yet, as there has not yet been a Battle of Yavin.

When Mon Mothma was talking about having a new person they might be able to bring into the fold of the fledgling rebellion, and the internet is replete with theories that it's Bail or Leia...... either of which would suck imo. But I was thinking about all the artifacts Luthen has in his shop.............

Kalikori - Hera Syndulla (ISB schmoe also talks about prisoner movement in Ryloth, which is Hera's homeworld)
Mandalorian armor - Sabine Wren
Holocron - Kanan Jarrus
World Between Worlds stone thingy - Ezra Bridger

The only one that isn't accounted for in these references is Zeb, at least as far as I can tell. And we know that Syndulla, Wren, and Bridger are all going to be in the Ahsoka series. So I'm wondering if in addition to Fulcrum we'll also get Spectre.